Forger Retaliation - And Should We "Look the Other Way"

About Three Years I ago, I noticed an eBay seller that would buy old photos of long deceased celebrities , and a short time later would post the same photos but autographed. I commented about it in another autograph forum. This person responded to my posts with threats. I never heard from him again until recently. He actually posted here in this forum. But, at the same time he posted here, several fabricated "ripoff" reports were all over the internet which entailed ludicrous claims that I sold him a John Hancock letter for over $100,000 that was a forgery and I will not refund him. Hence, I recently sent out the below letter to my customers. My question is is it better to just NOT get involved with the forgery element of the autograph industry due to this type of malicious retaliation?

Here is a copy of the letter I have sent to my regular customers. Feel free to comment:

I am contacting you today to make you aware of someone who has been posting derogatory blog reports about my business. About 3 years ago I noticed a seller on eBay that was buying photos and then weeks later that same photo would be autographed, by “deceased” celebrities (JFK, Bela Lugosi, John Wayne, etc). I commented on this fraudulent autograph seller on the autograph forum “Is It real”. He was eventually banned from selling autographs by eBay . But then I noticed this same individually from New Jersey opened a website that is inundated with obvious forgeries

Well at the time he threatened to sue me for “outing” him. But I didn’t hear from him for the past few years. Then in the Autograph Magazine Live forum I noticed a derogatory post by an individual that I was certain was this same guy. At the same time I was informed by a customer that there were several “Ripoff” type reports on the internet byt this person stating I sold him a John Hancock for over $100,000 that I forged and would not refund him. Well, the good thing is he didn’t make much effort to make his claim sound anything but laughable. You see, I have never even owned or sold a John Hancock (I WISH I did!), and Never sold anything at a fraction of $100,000. Way out of my league.

Now when you type my business name in Google you may see all these reports which are identical, copy and pasted under various anonymous names, but obviously the same guy. So, in the event you came across one of his postings, you know it is a 100% retaliatory fabrication for “outing” this autograph forger three years ago. I suspect what happened is someone else had posted a Real report against him based on a purchase they made from him more recently and he suspects it was me. But, for the past 20 + years I have always tried to be active in the collecting community combating fraud. But, with that responsibility is the risk of retaliation from the bad element that prey on collectors, particularly inexperienced collectors.

I understand why many dealers “don’t get involved”. However, if those within the industry do not contribute to combating fraud and criminal activity, who will? And what will be the ramifications to not just the autograph collecting industry but every other area of collecting, from $50 baseball cards to 50 million dollar paintings.

Kevin

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Permalink Reply by Mr Zipper on November 6, 2011 at 6:15am

This is absolutely disgusting. One could never place a radio or tv or magazine ad that was 100% libelous and false. Yet, these ripoff report type sites seem to traffic in providing a venue for vengeance... much of it false. The fact that they let people publish under false or anonymous identities is unconscionable.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 7, 2011 at 1:28pm

Sorry to here about this Kevin, it is a really bad situation to be placed in.

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Permalink Reply by Mr Zipper on November 10, 2011 at 8:42am

You have to always remember that forgers are criminals and have criminal mindsets. When you foil forgers, you are coming between a criminal and his money. It should not shock anyone that they don't fight fair and will do anything to keep their enterprise going.

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on November 10, 2011 at 9:30am

yeah well, when i confronted a forger by telling his customer that not only did i know who was selling him his supply, but i also recognized his handwriting (one guy was selling and the other guy was doing the forging.).. the forger attacked me while sitting in my car (yes, i knew the guy very well and saw him a lot actually getting some autographs- because it's hard to forge an entire team item from scratch). and i still tell people about harold dodds!

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on December 29, 2011 at 11:31am

Mr. Zipper.. Bingo! You hit the nail on the head!! Over the past 13 years on ebay I have confronted many forgery sellers and it is amazing how consistent their dispositions are...very aggressive, often vulgar in their denial and personal attacks

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on December 29, 2011 at 11:39am

yeah.. but i love the guy who have EVERYTHING is forged... and they either trust their supplier completely or are doing the forging themselves. but then sometimes they claim they "got it from a guy who came into the shop with a lot of stuff." funny how that goes. everyone has a story.. even the guys who have EVERYTHING THAT IS FAKE!

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 29, 2011 at 12:04pm

Right about that Mike, everyone has a story and when they don't they will make one up, change words on posts to suit their own allegations or distort the facts to satisfy their own agenda and when that doesn't work find a few things in error and make it sound like it's the norm.

Is it any wonder that many of the people even here that are dealers stay at arms length in these debates. It's unfortunate as they have a wealth of information but frankly why get involved in the negative publicity that is sure to be forthcoming.

the even sadder part is the "uneducated" collector and who to believe. Until I stumbled across this place I had actually thought that the "breaking news" was something to embrace, While I may not necessarily appreciate Conway's "humor" at times I do know that there is absolutely nothing factual to the ROR post but had I not been a member here who knows what I might have believed.

therein lies the problem for those that expose forgers & their friends or very very very poor authenticators.

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on December 29, 2011 at 12:20pm

how about the thing going on between this site and that other one (i don't remember the name, just that they blast steve and roger all the time)... they say that everyone here is a bunch of liars and then the people here say they are a bunch of liars.. if i didn't know the people here PERSONALLY, i might have been inclined to believe them on occassion. especially if they were the first ones i started reading.

i know they live in la la land, but like you said, if i were "uneducated," i might believe them. how about the buttholes who steal pics of people signing from other sites to help sell their bogus items? and joe blow may just believe the "photo ops." i know that about 12 years ago, i sold a guy ONE LARGE TENNIS BALL signed by all the female stars of the time (kournikova, seles, capriatti, hingis, davenport etc.) that i had gotten at an event in scottsdale. i sold it on ebay with the pics of the girls signing as well. a few months later, i walked into a baseball card show in los angeles and there were my pics of people signing the ball (most pics, i was holding 2 tennis balls), and the guy was selling about 14 of them on his table (i personally only had gotten 4 DONE) and most likely had more (or could make more) and all the autographs were fake. i didn't even see the ball that i sold him. he had a sign "find me on ebay" with the same seller name as his buyer name. so i confronted him about it in front of a bunch of customers.... i mean, I WAS IN THE PICTURES and he was telling people that i was "one of his chasers," right there.. he had other pics of me getting stuff signed as well (because i was giving them to high bidders of items on ebay)... so i confronted him, he didn't even know who i was till i started pointing out myself in his photographs. and i had told him that you could only see that he bought ONE tennis ball off me, that i didn't even have 14 of them... he actually told me "it is what it is." and tried to have me thrown out of the show!!! jerk face!!!!

i guess he's not around anymore, cause i can't find him... i didn't even know his personal name. i just knew that it was b.s. and i stopped giving my signing pics to high bidders, much to my detriment as a lot of people ask at my auctions (i actually don't have an ebay account any longer) but i know that i lost sales because i wouldn't give them out.

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 29, 2011 at 12:40pm

yeah, but according to the Pogo's your a big time forger along with Herman and the a********** cyrkin. Epperson & Reznikoff are enemies of the state and so is anyone else who dares call out any of the klown posse. Then again, we also give them way to much ammunition and unfortunately some "self-imposed" exiles that ought to be here rather than becoming bank robbers ala patty hearst.

The "dealers" have essentially 3 choices; stay out of the frey all together, have a zero tolerance (which has a legal expense) or pick and choose their fight. Or perhaps a 4th ignore it (which I don't share) while having thick skin.

When they used a "conspirator" extortion with Sipe to fire mysinger it opened my eyes to how low they will go to try and embarass and ridicule others. When they publish personal information and the names and address of wifes & mothers amongst many other items it just goes to show anyone what lowlifes they, these pack of hyenas ,truly are.

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on December 29, 2011 at 7:13pm

i thought i was just mentioned in that thing about the guitar that had several GREAT autographs on it, but it was forged and cyrkin got that guitar from his buddy... ME... that's the only time i've been mentioned... to my knowledge.

but seriously, you're right, it's hard to keep constantly defending yourself from being unjustly attacked. i take it all pretty personally and get really pissed.. but all i can really say is that these people who do the attacking have all the time in the world since they are just forging their stuff at home.. I'M OUT ACTUALLY GETTING THE AUTOGRAPHS I SELL. and that takes up most of my time. everything else i do, takes up my time. so i don't have the time to find every website and blast these people either. so i really don't know what to do about retaliating. being letigious is costly!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Sambrano on December 23, 2011 at 2:29pm

What's the name on this forum? If this were my situation, I wouldn't just let it go. You already have a history with this dummy and I wouldn't be afraid of calling his cowardness out today. Why do people get so worked up when they hear the words "sue you" or "sue me" when they are meaningless and baseless threats. I would love to be challenged in court by a guy whos case has no merit, foundation, or not a shread of truth. Can you say counter suit? Not only would you win, the whole community would see him in public and his face would on all forums under titled headlines of fraudster.