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Authentication and Forgery Alert

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Authentication and Forgery Alert

Discuss authentication issues within the industry, including but not limited to 3rd party authentication. It's also a "clearing house" for suspected forgeries.

Members: 274
Latest Activity: 14 hours ago

Discussion Forum

Cal Ripken Jr and Chipper Jones signed jerseys someone just brought over. A little help please

Started by Frankie Turner. Last reply by Jeffery Kite Apr 10. 8 Replies

Ok, so a friend of mine just brought over two jerseys he found at his church auction and wanted me to check them out. They look good to me but I thought I would post them here to see what you all…Continue

Autograph Pros L.L.C.

Started by Violet Langdon. Last reply by Violet Langdon Apr 6. 2 Replies

Anyone know if Autograph Pros , L.L.C. sells authentic autographs? They seem legit to me but I would like a second opinion! Thanks I seen a autograph that they are selling and I want to buy it but I…Continue

Tags: L.L.C., Pros, Autograph

Another forger ?

Started by M. Last reply by Jet Jackson Apr 1. 1 Reply

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Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Community Manager on October 4, 2010 at 7:47pm
Anyone in for a drum circle?
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:46pm
Steve C-

Perfectly stated and that is the problem. The lack of respect for their peers who go out, bust their butts, get the great estate or do the perfect unimaginable signing.....only to have it failed.

Autographs are subjective and because of this they must have something in place that allows for communication, provenance, understanding the circumstances of say the signing, or why Ernie Davis didn't put his trademark loop under his signature....Because he signed his class notes, not an autograph for a fan. Once they start getting it right for people like me, we will become their biggest fans and most powerful supporters.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:43pm
Dave- Your a class A guy and I would have a blast sitting down with you. You sound wonderful. I don't drink though so a lemonade would suit me fine.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:42pm
Rick- I understand completely. All of us have made mistakes, some embarrassing ones. It's what one does about it that counts. Fifteen years ago I offered a Julie Newmar signed photo that turned out to be a fake. Once I realized this I removed it and never sold it. What upset me was not seeing someone expose this to the masses but that he stated; "I sold it". It never sold, I pulled it. I understand for the beginner it sometimes makes them feel bigger by exposing something wrong by an expert. We are human and do our best but ultimately it's if the unintentional victim is fully restored by the seller. I just cannot speak about those that deal knowingly in fraud for I don't understand that mentality to begin with.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:36pm
AB- Dont worry about it. I am sorry I responded like I did but this is my profession, my passion and I would never treat anyone the way you felt treated. It just got hung up somewhere and it was never pursued. I wish I knew about it, I really do
Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Community Manager on October 4, 2010 at 7:36pm
Dave, this really IS a fun hobby, so don't let it deter you. We're going through a very important period in autographs right now that I believe will lead to much safer and more enjoyable collecting.

We're in the middle of the Autograph Revolutionary War; a battle to the death to defeat the oppression of the forgery industry. We're winning the fight, and as we do, we're struggling to develop our own Constitution that will in time solve many of the authenticity conflicts that the legitimate hobby has been struggling with among themselves.

I think that PSA/DNA and JSA do an admirable job overall, but they are not perfect and will never be. If you don't see it signed, you have to make your decision on what's placed in front of you, and that sometimes leads to genuine autographs being declined, and visa versa.

It's also important to realize and remember that these services will decline autographs that they don't feel comfortable putting their seal on, even if they think they may be good. "May" isn't good enough. They have to feel confident in their decisions.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:34pm
Travis- Your dead right!!!

The form letter is ridiculous, particularly the part that states; "Slant." I have seen a Brooks Robinson failed due to the slant. He always signed on a slant but it was a generic letter so it could have been any of the other characters. It's an insult to top dealers, as Bill P pointed out to vet his material this way as it is for most I know. I don't sell fake Albert Einstein's they passed but offer real Muhammad Ali's they failed simply because I was there and did the signing but they couldn't authenticate it.
Comment by Dave Dodd on October 4, 2010 at 7:29pm
I want to cry and give both AB and Todd a hug for working everything out!! Good job guys! Time is very important, Time gives all of use the chance to put everything into perspective and realize that we are all human. You guys can both learn as I have tonight that again, we are all in this together. I want to buy both you guys a beer!!
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:27pm
Dave- It is like being called a liar. But you know your not so what does that say about them? I think their policy of not standing behind their opinion says it all.

Steve- My feeling about third party is strictly based on what I see, hear, know and the results. Remember I was a third party authenticator myself so I speak from experience. Those giving guarantee's or refunds obviously feel comfortable with what they offer to do such. Those that don't know something we do not. Authentication should be always based on the signature, inks, item it's signed on etc. Not on the source. If you get into authenticating sources or people instead of signatures it should be a pageant, not an authenticating circus.
Comment by Rick Badwey on October 4, 2010 at 7:27pm
Todd, we all make mistakes. Actually the letter I was referring to came from a very long standing reputable dealer who is a member of PADA. I know it was accidental as he was not defensive and asked me to mail back to him. No one is perfect
 

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