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Authentication and Forgery Alert

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Authentication and Forgery Alert

Discuss authentication issues within the industry, including but not limited to 3rd party authentication. It's also a "clearing house" for suspected forgeries.

Members: 293
Latest Activity: 9 hours ago

Discussion Forum

Kirby Puckett 8x10 and Tony Gwynn 8x10 real or fake? thanks

Started by Frankie Turner. Last reply by Frankie Turner 9 hours ago. 1 Reply

I'm posting several threads of 8x10s my friend found that he had bought back in the 80s or early 90s and I don't know if he remembers where he got them so I'm helping him see if these things are real…Continue

Mickey Mantle auto, Mickey Mantle & Mattingly, Yogi Berra (real or not?) thanks

Started by Frankie Turner. Last reply by Frankie Turner 10 hours ago. 4 Replies

A friend of mine bought a lot of these auto's (I will be posting more) back in the 80s and just found them in a closet in his house. if they are real pretty nice score but I'm not an expert. Help…Continue

Bobby Richardson,Phil Neikro and Dave Justice real or faked? thanks

Started by Frankie Turner yesterday. 0 Replies

again, this is a small part of a bunch of 8x10s a friend found at his house that he got in the late 80s early 90s (not in person) The Bobby Richardson is a newer auto. I was just wanting any input…Continue

Reggie Jackson,Bo Jackson and Jose Canseco 8x10 real or faked?

Started by Frankie Turner yesterday. 0 Replies

again these are part of the 8x10 lot my friend got in the late 80s early 90s and I'm not totally sure if they are real or not. Some look legit some don't but I have a feeling most are good but I…Continue

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Comment by Dave Dodd on October 5, 2010 at 7:23am
Yea, but they worked it out. AB has purchsed tons of stuff from Todd and has been happy with everything but the Tiger item. Todd and Ab have come to an agreement. Its done! Lets not jump to conclussions and think that Todd sold AB a Tiger item that he knew was not authentic. There is no reason to boycott Todd. Even AB said Todd was a great guy and has been a pleasure to purchase from. Why are we so quick to judge?
Comment by Dave Dodd on October 5, 2010 at 7:13am
Why not keep the blog informitave and helpful for the collector. Why start up more problems.
Comment by Dave Dodd on October 5, 2010 at 7:09am
Thats the problem with this country people like Steve Moore. Everybody want to get in everybody else's business. They think that 2 grown men can't work out thier problems. Why is it your business?? I would really like to know?
Comment by Dave Dodd on October 5, 2010 at 7:05am
Great Steve, lets start it up again. They worked everything out and you want to start with negative comments about the issue again. ITS ALL BEEN WORKED OUT STEVE!!!!! Read the blog!! If you don't want to purchase from Todd then so be it. Lets not ad fuel to the fire! Disturbing is you trying to bad mouth Todd. Who are you the Autograph Blog Police. Give me a break!! Yuck is right.
Comment by roger epperson on October 5, 2010 at 4:26am
Todd
Dead on correct about the Hans Bakker stuff. If he would just had done a couple, I don't think anyone would have ever known. He was that good. But when the flood gates opened and they were coming out like hot wings at BW3's during a football game that told the story. Now we all can spot these a mile away.

One thing I would like to add though is there is a difference from being authentic and collectable. What I mean is you may get something signed "in person" but depending on the circumstances of what was going on when the person signed the item, it may not look like thier autograph. That would make it authentic but not collectable or "sellable". (is that a word?) This happens alot when people submit things to third party authenticators. If it doesn't look like thier signature they can't pass it. I see McCartney's all the time that are HORRIBLE looking and I know they are probably authentic but they don't look like they should. I can't pass them as being good because they don't look right. You know the kind of crap we take if we make an error. What I do is tell them that I can't make a call on the autograph as it doesn't look like his signature. I don't say its not authentic just that I can't give it the thumbs up. I don't charge for that either. So, if you get something signed and while they are signing it someone bumps that persons arm and messes up the signature and you send it to PSA or whoever and they fail it, you can't get angry with them, even when you know you got it in person. I don't know how they handle these types of situations but that's the way I do. In my eyes getting a crappy looking signature from someone is like not getting one at all. Put that one in the reject file.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 8:09pm
Rick- The best forger's typically fool third party and even the experts to start with. What get's them is greed. They can't stop. A feeling of power so they keep going. Ultimately that is what unravels the whole scam. If you bought an item from me I would refund you in full. If you bought it from someone who doesn't guarantee their work but had it authenticated your probably screwed.
When I was working with Charles Schulz on some items I didn't like but were passing authentication each time I felt I couldn't convince him that they were fake. He stated he drew each and every sketch. He even stated on one, of snoopy running, that he drew it for a kid who stated he was dying from bone marrow cancer. Schulz was upset that I, a dealer had it. The forger knew I was approaching Schulz with these and called relentlessly to find out what happened almost to a point of exposure in and of itself. When I told him Schulz liked them, another 75 were available. I passed and worked harder than ever on them and realized they were being blown up from catalog's, put on an overhead projector and traced. Roger is correct that the agents or even the celeb's themselves cannot authenticate their own signatures, particularly when the forgers are good. I think the Elvis, Hans Bakker lyrics, letters etc fall under the same category combined with they were all consistently consistent whereas Elvis was not.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:52pm
Just had this interesting debate and you want to do a drum circle? Seriously now, I was all for the lemonade.
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:51pm
Travis- I agree. Someone sends in a Steve Garvey and they get it right, or a Dusty Baker or Rollie Fingers. Those are easy and I won't mention Sal Bando.

What I find interesting is the big names they can't get like Tiger Woods, Muhammad Ali, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Michael Jordan etc. Notice one of these companies has independent experts on the big names. These are the biggest names in sports, obviously the most forged.

My issue is I can get everything they can get such as Rollie Fingers, Dusty Baker, etc etc. The only help I think any expert would need is the tougher names but when you have done signings with Ali (three total) like I have and they fail them, than I lose faith for anything they have passed or failed. This is where they need help for the other stuff is easy or like you said, shouldn't even be sent in.
Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Community Manager on October 4, 2010 at 7:47pm
Anyone in for a drum circle?
Comment by Todd Mueller on October 4, 2010 at 7:46pm
Steve C-

Perfectly stated and that is the problem. The lack of respect for their peers who go out, bust their butts, get the great estate or do the perfect unimaginable signing.....only to have it failed.

Autographs are subjective and because of this they must have something in place that allows for communication, provenance, understanding the circumstances of say the signing, or why Ernie Davis didn't put his trademark loop under his signature....Because he signed his class notes, not an autograph for a fan. Once they start getting it right for people like me, we will become their biggest fans and most powerful supporters.
 

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