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Dale Earnhardt Sr. Signature

Started by Alaine Randall. Last reply by michael bartow Jun 16. 1 Reply

I just bought this at a garage sale today for $10. I just was hoping to authenticate the signature or find out a great place to go for authentications. I'm pretty sure the signature is newer than the…Continue

One of the nicest pieces of NASCAR autograph history I have authenticated in a while

Started by Brandon Mysinger. Last reply by Gary Parker May 3. 4 Replies

Each day, I am asked to look at dozens of items for authentication. Usually, it's the typical items that we are used to seeing here. Every once in a while, I get sent an item that makes me say…Continue

Dale Sr on the back window of my pace car

Started by craig duhon Feb 14. 0 Replies

Ok trying to find out if this is real.. if so it would be cool.. one picture is from the inside of the Pace car where the tint preserved to signature that was on the out side,, And the other is on…Continue

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Comment by michael bartow on July 13, 2014 at 4:38pm

Why yes fred I have. even if I have a photo showing the driver signing the chances of me getting oh lets say 150 or better is not going to happen. Unless you have a prototype, retired/dead driver, or a rare car forget getting anything more the $100.00 unless your like brandon who may also get the team owner or crew chief to sign it. and believe me I was only able to get pat tryson to sign a kurt diecast a couple of yrs ago at the stocks for tots thing and I almost had to BEGGGG on my knee's for it. he really didn't want to sign it. Have a look on ebay now and your going to run the gamit of people with and without a photo. The thing is going back to the photo thing. with some of the diecast/trading cards the driver is asked by lionel/action/team caliber/ press pass to autograph certain items and distribute into the population. the thing is non and I say again non come with a photo. even the hero cards you send for don't even come with a photo so a secretary could sign it and nobody would even know. Even a rusty wallace 8x10 photo I got many many yrs ago on QVC when they used to have for race fans only I only got a slip of paper saying your in possesion of a autographed 8x10 photo of rusty. Now with that said his signiture then compared to what he signs now and belive me its like night and day. he used to sign his whole name out. now its not even a full name. more along the lines of brad K signiture of today. that is why even with a photo drivers change their hand writing style to fit how they are able to sign many autographs for people

Comment by Frederick Weichmann on July 10, 2014 at 7:38am

You said that you have sold an autographed diecast on Ebay that didn't have a photo. If you had 2  Dale Sr. autographed diecast, one with a picture of him signing and one without, and sold them both on Ebay. Don't you think there would be a big difference in price for what they would sell for?

You are right, the Dale Jr. autograph that I have is different than how he signs today. He put # 3 next to his name. Now if I did not have the picture to prove that he signed that diecast, his autograph might be in question because maybe he only signed that way just once and decided he didn't like signing that way. Authenictors are like gods who decide what autographes lives ard dies. But unfortunatly they are human to, being human, they can and have made mistakes by saying that a forgery is real, and that a real autograph is a fake. I think that a photo of the moment of a person signing just helps clarifies that it is.

I know that I have said alot of negativity about authenicators, but in the most part, I think they and Autograph Magazine does a great job in policing the industry.

This has just been a subject that I have wanted to get out in the open and hopfully will help any other collector that will read this. It has been great to talk to a fellow collector, Michael!! I wish you the best of luck on any future signings in your collection!!!   This isn't my first rodeo      

 

 

Comment by michael bartow on July 9, 2014 at 4:02pm

Yeah but fred I don't have the luxury of Hot passes for nascar like you appearently have had. The only autographs I get are the ones that I can get from the drivers down on pit road prior to qualifying or on sunday if the driver happens to want to sign so its a crap shoot for me. so if that driver happens to be like oh like mark martin he flyes his butt down the line and before you even have a chance to take the photo hes already down the line.  I have things down to a science with taking photo's and believe me in this day and age its better with a digital you don't have to wind it like a disposable is. I've been collecting autographs for the last 9 yrs of drivers so I know all about what I should do and not do. I do have some with photo's and some without. And, I have sold some on ebay without a photo and again nobody questions my authenticity of the item. If I'm unable to get a photo I give a detailed explaination when, where and what was going on. be its after a race, practice or even if that person is just playing around (ie not doing anything). Thats why I say this is not my first rodeo and if you look at your old Jr signings I bet they won't even be close to todays Dale Jr autographs you see today.

Comment by Frederick Weichmann on July 9, 2014 at 3:25pm

I never said that taking a picture of the signer signing is easy. In fact, it takes a whole lot of planning, coordination, and practice. it is like a dance that you have to practice over and over again. I have learned to carry 2 camerias just in case one was out of film, how to walk backwards as the driver is signing walking forward, how to rubber band 2 diecast together on the hopes that the signer would sign 2 cars instead of just one, figure out where the driver I am looking for has to walk to get from his hauler to the drivers meeting. It just depends on how much effort the collector is willing to put into his collection.

Yes I have been to many Indy, Nascar, NHRA, and even Monster Truck races. I know how hectic it can be carrying around a big bag fulled with heavy diecast in 95 degree weather, get sweaty, sunburn and tired chasing drivers around.

About forges, well, most of the time, I  use 35 mm camerias so I can develope the film, then cut the negitive strips so I can tape the apporiate negitive to it's picture. The picture is then placed with it's signed item. so if I were to sell, you would get the item, the autograph, the picture, the negetive, and a C.O.A. ( because these days anybody can make a C.O.A.) stating what the item is, when and where it was signed at.

Items that are signed with no pictures, I have a large carton that is filled with them. Maybe my cameria only had 1 picture left on it when I needed 3, at least twice I have dropped my cameria and over  24 pictures were exposed, the battteries just decided to give out at the time I needed them the most. I have the boxed mark "Dead Autographs". No picture, no real proof of the moment of actual signing.

I belong to a couple of facebook diecast clubs (Nascar Diecast Collection, Nascar Diecast group ) and I am amazed how many collectors fell that it is acceptable to get autographes without a picture, in person or sent away diecast

Collecting diecast is one form of collectting. But what most diecast collectors don't realize is that when they cross over that fine line of collectting autographed diecast. You have now entered a whole new realm of collectting with a whole different set of rules of grading and authenticity that is filled full with forges and greed.

Most likely, a authenticator will never tell you that the best way to authenticate a autograph is to take a picture while the item is being signed, That is because why would they take food out of their own mouths. For every autographed signed without a photo, in the future, it will have to be authenicated sometime. 

If you look at authenticators listed in P.S.A. . you will see that all their authenicators have once or are still are collectors of whatever autograph field that they are in. That being said, I have a question, When they themselfs obtain a autograph for their own collection, Who authenicates their autographes? they themselfs ( a conflict of interest ) or another co-worker ( still a conflict of interest ) and that has already been stated on this board. These days, almost anybody can self-proclaim that they are a expert in authenicatting autographs. If a authenticator find a item that he whats for his own collection, will he low ball the price of the item for he can hope to obtain it himself? Thats why with so much money up for grabs in the autograph industry, even some C.O.A.s aren't worth the paper that it is printed on.

I don't and never did consider myself a export of collecting autographs, but now I see authenticators that have less experience than I do, are.

 I brouht this subject up for the new comers that are entering the autograph collectting world so they can make the most out their collections.

So Please, Take a photo of the signer, signing every autograph that you are lucky enough to abtain and/or Collect how ever makes you happy!!!!FRED

Comment by michael bartow on July 8, 2014 at 8:46pm

I understand what your saying Brandon. But,  for someone to say well unless its got a photograph to go with it its fake is like I said before well I could forge a harvick or even a johnson signiture lets say on the same diecast in the photo and guess what from Fred's analogy he would say oh its real even though like you said its a fake. That is why I offered a rebutal to his thought.

Comment by Brandon Mysinger on July 8, 2014 at 7:57pm

Michael, that's why it's important to study signatures. Especially in NASCAR where they sign unlike any other sport.  The drivers may have changed their signatures, but you can still pick out a forgery, that's why it's important for me to collect examples all year long in various signing scenarios.  A fake will always stand out.

Comment by michael bartow on July 8, 2014 at 7:14pm

Sorry I wasn't able to finish my thought. The thing Frederick is that in this day and age people are able to minipulate anything to what you want it to be so like you said about having a photo well I could like I said forge one sell it on ebay and guess what nobody would be the wiser. That is why you should do HW when you think you want to buy a diecast from somebody on ebay that is already signed. ask a question like when did the person sign it. does that person offer back their money if they are not satisfied. has this person sold any other items till that point and what has that person sold. believe me I've sold many diecast, sheetmetal on ebay without any issues of somebody saying oh thats a fake. Hell if I wanted to sell fakes I could sell J. Johnsons diecasts all day long. All it's is two loops and maybe dots to signal those are dots on the i's. believe me its not hard to forge that and if I have a photo showing it signed an original one and I'm selling a fake then who's to say what is real and what's not. Hell even Carl E signiture is what a bunch of circles also. look at brad K's now. he used to sign it as brad kes. now its brad K. bet I could forge that one also.

Comment by michael bartow on July 8, 2014 at 3:29pm

Hey Frederick, I wasn't able to get picture of Jr signing the diecast. The reason for it I own a SLR camera which for me takes 2 hands to operate and since he was heading out for drivers intro I also had some other people infront of me be it either security or another driver and I wasn't in a real good spot being near the corner and not having someplace for the drivers to sign it and get a picture of it. If I was able to get a picture with him siging it then I would have taken it. I do that with all my diecasts/sheetmetal/hero cards/photo's I get signed. But, you bring up a good point though and about taking a photo but in this day and age alot of the drivers PR Guys/Gals want to keep the line moving like hearding cattle. I don't know if you have been to a Indy race but they are the same way. The drivers have only 1 hr and if they sign for 100 people then that is all they do but they want you to keep moving so they can maybe get another 50 through. I will upload a photo of Juan Pablo's cars I got signed Sunday but I couldn't hold my camera and 2 diecast at the same time so I was only able to get a body shot after I set things down outside of the autograph tent does that mean those are not legit?. Same back in June I had kurt sign a diecast and a photo I took of his car from fri's qualifying. Now in the photo it shows him signing these folks before me's T's they thought last min about getting their stuff signed before me but he signed my photo first and then the shirts then my diecast but as normal the handlers are rushing you through so I wasn't able to get another photo of him signing the diecast. Like you also mentioned about the $1 photo well as the old saying goes a photo is like a 1,000 words but even then I could go out and lets say find a replacement Kevin H diecast from my collection forge it take one of my pictures showing the same car and say yeah here is a Kevin H car autographed by him with him putting pen to car and couldn't I say its legit also from your analogy of well the diecast has a photo showing him signing it then it must be real even though I forged it.  

Comment by Frederick Weichmann on June 20, 2014 at 1:55pm

 Michael Bartow, Please tell me you took a picture of Dale Jr. signing that nice expensive diecast.

I apologize to Micheal Bartow!!! I am just useing his post to bring up this subject. In no way do I want to tarnish his name, someone I don't even know. I am sure he did get a picture of the signing. 

I see this kind of posting on EBAY & FACEBOOK all the time. But this is Autographed Magazine Live, and I can't believe with all the controverses of forgeres,  that I would still see people posting autographs that they say they have obtained with no proof here.

I have been a autogragh hound for over 30 years and for every autograph (over 4,000) I have always taken a picture of that driver/celiberty signing either at a sit down, in the pit, or on the run because in these days of technology (I phones) there is no better way to authenticate an autograph than taking a picture at the time of the signing of the item. Now days, to me, if the autograph does not come with a picture, then it is not real. Besides, I think it makes a better display and post.

I heard the old arguement, I don't need to take a picture for proof, this is going into my own personal collection. But, In the future, you, or after your gone, someone down the road will have to sell that item. I just like knowing that my family will get top dollar for my collection when I am Gone and not have to pay a authenictor $50.00 a autograph just to say it is real when a $1.00 picture could have done the same thing.

Just think, If people would have had I phones since the 13th centuty and painters would have had a picture taken of themself signing their art work, their would be no reason to have authenicators, just a thought.

I apologize to Micheal Bartow!!! I am just useing his post to bring up this subject. In no way do I want to tarnish his name, someone i don't even know.I am sure he did get a picture of the signing. 

Comment by michael bartow on June 20, 2014 at 10:52am

hey gang. been a while since I last posted. got some good autographs last yr and this yr. here is a dale jr autograph that I got signed by him prior to driver intro for the Pocono 400 race earlier this month which he also won by brad making the small mistake of trying to clean his grill by drafting up on danica. I will try and post next week some kevin stuff I got signed on thurs prior to the race weekend at pocono when he did a autograph session for wegmans in easton pa.

 

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