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Authenticity is Everything
Questions On Music items from UK dealer
Garry King is well liked by some but I see a big problem with some of the items I see on his site. I'm not referring to Kenny Baker and other small bits but rather the large $$ music items.
Dealers in the UK might not be aware of current music item that they offer for sale. In another thread several autographs from Autografica were deemed fake. The items were Clint Eastwood, Charlton Heston and Harrison Ford.
He might not know there is a problem.
Tags: Charlton, Clint, Eastwood, Ford, Garry, Harrison, Heath, King, Ledger, Philippe, More…
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GKing3.jpg, 140 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on
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There are good dealers within AFTAL
Please do not think everyone has been silly in all this
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Permalink Reply by Mike P on
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Yes, I've done business with many of them. Andy and Garry are two of several.
There are many that I haven't bought from as well. However, all AFTAL members shouldn't be afraid to voice their opinions.
Steve, if that's true then I suppose they should withhold. However, once the court ruling etc is released I believe they owe the public by voicing what they really think.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on
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Guy everyone has a point but everyone has made their point too not once but numerous times .
And when the dust has settled it shows people f***** up and that statement made all this s*** .
Have you all stopped and thought if that statement did not say what it did how things will be today ?
We might not even be here !!
Look everyone f***** up Ken , Gary , Aftal everyone but its done and till a proper legal statement comes out you will all keep going on and on , fair enough u all have a reason etc
But there is one coming hopefully in about 72 hrs .
The final point from me is this , the reason all this happened is because this matter was too big for Aftal to deal with and it caught then off guard and here we are .
But it's done and am sure lesson learned so let's see what they say and do next week .
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Not all of us follow this day in and day out. Before Steve mentioned, I didn't know there were lawyers etc involved. I guess it is the news-consumer's responsibility to keep up, but to be honest this is all child's play. People who did wrong should just admit it, and do what is morally just (accept returns, take down listings etc).
No one here f'ed up those people; if a dealer joins a group, it is almost a given if something happens to the group as whole, the dealer will be included in the criticisms. Regardless if the dealer is truly respected or not; especially if they have the pieces in question. Furthermore, it doesn't help that a dealer takes down the pieces, but then offers them to someone. That is very fishy and no matter how good the dealer is, that is shameful.
We'll see if there is some hope and that morals prevail.
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Garry is a good guy, and has been seriously shafted
He will be back
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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on
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That's the point im trying to make. IF Garry is NOT in agreement, he should distance himself and state as such!
How many dealers sold the MJ (and others ) items after the initial AFTAL STATEMENTS?
Isn't that the exact thing Garry and these dealers fought against?????
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Regardless of what happens in this situation, i still find the actions of the AFTAL board to be disgusting at best. This doesnt appear to be just a mistake on the boards part. Their is evidence of something very shady going on their. Their is nothing that will change that. Their criticism is deserved, with the exception of all the focus on Mr. King. The fact of the matter is that all autograph boards/authenticators/collectors etc. will always make mistakes and some of them will be big. Its a plan that every autograph vendor has been over many times. Good dealers know how to handle the situation and act accordingly. Especially with a huge organization like AFTAL.
If the MJs and numerous other items from this supplier are doubted, then authorities in those areas of concern should be consulted. In this case they were, Roger Epperson among others. They were found to be questionable, and regardless of what they chose to do with Adriane, they could have at least recalled the MJ items to the best of their ability since they seemed to be in question. Or at least made a statement that they were considering the evidence and would release a statement. But thats not how it happened. Instead they made a statement to the contrary and have apparently threatened some who are speaking out. Autographica produced absolutely none of the promised evidence, and according to those who apparently were their, the situation wasnt even brought up. Its obvious that the good AFTAL dealers are going to take offense at all of the bad publicity the board is getting, and rightly so, but it is the boards fault. I know i am probably missing some of the technicalities here, but their is no excuse that can be remotely given for the shady actions involved by the few.
Their are great AFTAL dealers out their, but this will forever change the way that organization is viewed, at least by me.
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Hi guys once again broken down communication it happens a lot , Anyway Carl Ryan honestly I do not give 2 s**** what happens to AFTAL as I dont run the bloody thing , I only wanted people to focus on the main point here and the point for me guys was if they are fake who faked them then there is your guy.
I have not once ever from day one agreed with Aftal statement not once and even when I was asked not to debate I ignored their email so I think this shows what am about.
Now in regards to New York its a mix up I meant because I am trying to show you something that is going on in NY that it is bad timing after what is going on there , Meaning there is too much going on there already so maybe will not care about someone in NEW YORK Selling fake autographs.
I hope this clears things as people in UK already know I write greek but in english words and that kind of translate wrong sometimes.
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And another thing so its clear I have never once said Either of the Items were Genuine I want this new finding to come out as much as the next guy . OK !!
And for the record I personally do not mind reading the clever posts on here because people like DB, CARL, MIKE ,STEVE ,BRANDON and many more have said some very good things which I totally agree with all you are doing is asking question and you are not getting the answers. And this is the problem but at the same time this guys have been asked not to comment and they are silent , I got an email from Ken Mills today saying to me I have asked the question over and over again at aftal can I or not sell this Jackos do you take back your statement so I can ask for a refund as your statement makes this a challenge the seller says they are genuine then america say know there is a mixture of a debate here. So he is stressed am stressed as its a shame for many people to be dragged into this , I know for a fact Gary and Ken have high blood pressure after this and Ken is finished with Aftal he has no interest to continue after this nightmare.
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Permalink Reply by Ken Mills on
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This is the first and last time I intend to place a thread on this forum and am only doing this following advice from one person whose integrity I trust implicitly. I have not read any of the threads relating specifically to my name or my Company Writestuff Autographs and have no desire to. I followed the sheer vitriol and attacks when this thread first commenced and am under no illusions that there will be many hungry dogs in the pack just waiting to keep taking just one more bite - but I won't be viewing them so save your efforts. It rapidly deteriorated into an America versus the U.K. thread and unfortunately whilst the American dog likes to bear its teeth, smell fear and taste blood, sadly AFTAL, who until the past few months I have supported so strongly as a member, became the dog that likes to lie in front of the fire and lick its own balls !
I have been an In Person Collector for over 45 years and have met everyone from the Beatles, The Stones, Jimi Hendrix, The Beach Boys, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa etc etc. I set up my Full Time business over 15 years ago and up until the last 3 months have enjoyed a reputation second to none in my own Country and have countless satisfied customers all over the world who regularly keep coming back. I do a regular feature spot on our Local BBC Radio every month and do like to think I know a thing or two about Autographs. Like several other Dealers who have always had the utmost respect for Adrian Longden who has been one of the better In Person collectors operating worldwide, I bought a number of Michael Jackson signed photos, before and after M.J's death. I had no reason to doubt their authenticity as I had built up a strong level of trust and they were similar to others on offer from other AFTAL Dealers. Bearing in mind that in my time I have got Al Pacino coming out of The Ritz at 3.30am in London in the past I have no desire or inclination to do what the likes of Jason Thanos does these days as it has all become so tough. John Lennon and Jimi Hendrix never asked me if I would be selling their autographs on Ebay ! When this thread threw up the situation that followed, I like others had to look to the organisation we pay subsciptions to i.e. AFTAL to do the necessary research and let us know their findings. Eventually after an awful lot of ill feeling on this Forum we were told by AFTAL that they had viewed video footage and could say that they were 100% certain that the Michael Jackson autographs in question were without doubt authentic. I repeat that ' without doubt '. In an effort not to become embroiled I stopped myself from coming onto this forum plus AFTAL instructed all its members to stay off it and remain silent. After several weeks I contacted Garry King and asked him if in view of AFTAL's statement backing up their authenticity was I able to re-submit them onto my Website and was told to ' hang on for a few weeks whilst they made further investigation '. Hardly the response I expected following the unequivocal statement. So off my website they have remained but nobody on either side of the ' pond ' has offered satisfactory proof that the autographs weren't genuine. At the end of the day I have a business to run with bills to pay so when a prospective customer contacted me for some M.J. scans I sent him some. Thereby lies the tale as to why this has escalated to such proportions and why I am under the Doctor for blood pressure and have become so disheartened with a hobby and Industry I have loved so passionately and given so much to, as well as taking out of it. I now just feel like I want to pack it all in as I'm not sure who I can trust anymore other than myself and one or two other close colleagues. I can't apologise for my actions because I didn't collect the autographs myself, I didn't believe them to be anything other than genuine, and I trusted the orgaisation I belonged to to give me necessary support and advice and in my opinion they failed so drastically in their duties. Apart from maybe some judicial editing I would like to thank you for allowing me the space to give my side. As I stated earlier I fully expect the slings and arrows of outrageous ' experts ' so will let you all have your say. Ken Mills Writestuff Autographs ( U.K. )
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