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Authenticity is Everything
Is JSA now authenticating forgeries?
I am a new member although I do frequently read articles and forum posts from this site because they populate in Google search when I do research on various autographs.
Let me say first and foremost that this post is not to cause drama or ill feelings. I realize that there are a lot of people who are partial to TPA's and in all truthfulness, I myself prefer items that are certified by major 3rd party authentication companies.
I frequent eBay and make the majority of my purchases from ebay and like many of you, I usually add PSA or JSA to the search bar with whatever I am looking to buy. For instance, If I am looking to buy a Mickey Mantle signed baseball, I might query ( Mickey Mantle baseball PSA ).
While I am very capable of telling whether a Mantle is real or fake, I realize that should I ever want to resell the item that having a TPA on it will certainly help me. So, typically I buy items that are already certified. At the very least, it is a second opinion on what I already feel about the item. I don't buy simply based on the sticker, because I have seen a lot of items that I disagree with TPA's on.
My reason for this post is to call in to question James Spence ( JSA ) on some very questionable items I have been seeing as of late. Most of the items that I have seen have been Music and Entertainment. Has anyone else noticed that JSA is seemingly giving blanket authentication to items as of late. This concerns me as someone who has a large portion of my collection authenticated by JSA. While, I know that my JSA authenticated items are real, if they ruin their reputation, the resell value of these items will tank. This is very concerning. I wanted to get some opinions as to what is going on here? Is JSA going the route of Global? As a long time collector I remember when Global was actually a legitimate authentication company but in no time seemed to turn in to a blanket authentication company.
I am not trying to bash JSA but from what I've been seeing the last few months, I feel about 500% more confident in PSA when it comes to Music and Entertainment autographs. What made me decide to make this post was a conversation I had today with a guy I met at a show a while back. I would occasionally get him to have stuff authenticated if a major TPA was at a show he was going to. Well, he called me tonight out of the blue and said that James Spence and his son were going to be at his house and asked me if I had any items I needed authenticated.
This conversation made me feel that perhaps Spence is a bit to chummy with people he is authenticating for. I don't like that one bit. I don't want the authenticator drinking an ice cold beer with the person selling the autographs. It seems to be a serious conflict of interest and in all honesty, I have felt a serious decline in my level of trust in JSA.
Another interesting thing I want to touch base on is a company called GFA. There is one specific seller who is using about 5 different ebay ids to pump out countless amounts of forgeries from this supposed forensic expert.
This seller has used 5 names to sell well over 75,000 dollars in forgeries all certified by GFA. I have reported his items to eBay but because he is a power seller they seem to never pull the listings. I decided to do a PSA quick opinion on several of his offerings and all 4 of the quick opinions failed. I notified him that the items failed PSA Quick Opinion and this was his response
" It's not even worth dignifying this with a response but if the stuff I've been selling is fake, then I've been ripped off for the past year by my merchandiser. I gave up on those idiots at the "big authentication companies" when I sent them items that I had personally witnessed being signed and they came back as "likely not authentic". Why is it "likely"? Because it's their opinion..
As you can see, GFA is another company that gives blanket authentication and should absolutely be added to eBay's banned COA list.
Here is a few active auctions with GFA certs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Signed-8x10-Photo-Autographed...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dale-Earnhardt-Richard-Petty-Signed-8x10-Ph...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Signed-8x10-Photo-Autographed...
In closing, I sincerely hope that I haven't offended anyone with my first post. It just bothers me to see JSA authenticating so many questionable entertainment items. It would be horribly sad to see them sell out for the quick buck.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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I agree it is perfectly OK to disagree. Again, I only deal with sports autographs and do not study music/entertainment stars.
Perhaps, they should not be authenticating these unless they use Roger 100% of the time but likely the cost of doing that is prohibitive.
Also, I didn't say he could authenticate thousands without using exemplars. I did say "tons" that he had looked at thousands of times. Probably a few hundred would be a safe number that he would be very familiar with and not need to look at exemplars on.
I personally think JSA's mistake is doing so many show authentications. They have to use their less experienced guys at shows and especially on the regular authentications where there is no pictured LOA, there is no oversight by Jimmy. On the full LOAs, Jimmy or his son signs every one personally and obviously can see a picture of what was passed. He has and does sometimes reverse the authentication and refund the fee without issuing an LOA. It happened to me once and I was very ticked off but he was right, it was not authentic. To me, that shows a concern to be diligent in getting it right. Again, I am speaking about sports autographs.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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EBAY is riddled with JSA forgeries. Far to many to just write off as simple errors. While not on Par with Global or GFA they are pretty bad when it comes to music and entertainment.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Poulos on
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Randy, I am not bashing JSA. I am simply putting them under scrutiny for all of the bad items that I am seeing ( and it has gotten worse in the past 6 months or so ).
Also where did I compare JSA to Global? My only comment is that it would be horribly sad to see them go the route Global did, and that isn't an impossibility. I certainly don't think at this point in time that JSA is as bad as Global as anything with a Global cert is almost assuredly a forgery but the amount of blanket authentication that JSA has been giving as of late is a cause for concern and to act as if they shouldn't face scrutiny is what is bad for the hobby.
I realize that most of you guys are veteran collectors so I'm not here to undermine anyone but you saying " bashing 3rd party authenticators hurts the autograph hobby" is a bizarre statement. I am 100% aware of one major autograph power seller on eBay who submits all of his entertainment autographs to PSA and if PSA fails the item, he sends it to JSA for an almost guaranteed authentication. I think when it comes to Music/Celebrity autographs, JSA has a bad record with getting it right.
I hope James Spence reads this post and hears my concern. I have a large portion of my collection authenticated by JSA and if they ruin their reputation, they ruin the resell value of my collection. Plain and simple, I am just frightened at their operation as of late.
Also another quick note, I have heard that JSA has put in bids on contracts for an " AUTHENTICATE ALL MY CRAP " deal. These are the types of deals that Global use to always get. Why is JSA trying to get these type of contracts with shady sellers? This in itself (if true) is scary. I can't be absolutely sure it is factual as it is all hearsay from a couple of collectors I know but what is absolutely fact is that Press Pass Collectibles sends 100% of the stuff PSA fails to JSA, yet if JSA fails an item first, he doesn't bother sending it to PSA for a second opinion. That is bizarre.
Is JSA better than Global? Absolutely
Could they turn in to another Global? It certainly isn't impossible.
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Jimmy Spence III is a member of this forum so I am sure he reads these posts. He is not likely to respond however because there is no way to win. If he stands by their opinion, he will be lambasted here and if he admits a mistake has been made then it would be even worse.
Just keep in mind that an "opinion" by definition cannot be proved or disproved. You have to trust an authenticator if you are not knowledgeable.
I trust PSA/DNA and JSA on sports autographs which is basically my interest. I have never seen a Mantle autograph that I thought they were not correct on.
Looks like they may be spotty on certain entertainment autographs based on opinions here.
I will guarantee that although they may well bid on large collections or dealer lots as to pricing, they will never agree to "pass" every autograph just because a certain party submitted it. They fail plenty of items for Heritage and all of the other large auction houses.
They list Roger Epperson as their music expert but I have no idea how often they use him. He would not be listed on their LOA even if they use him since he is a contracted authenticator. I know on some items posted here he has stated he did not look at them and that could be a problem.
I am not giving JSA or PSA/DNA for that matter a pass. I know they make mistakes. I just don't think they are horrible at what they do which seems to be the opinion here.
While most members on this forum are ardent and knowledgeable collectors, the vast majority of collectors in general are not and never will be. We can't force them to put in the time to gain the knowledge.
They have to trust someone's opinion and at present I don't think anyone is better than these two companies.
Of course, this is just my "Opinion" and cannot be proven or disproven.
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I do agree on the sports items. They do a great job with these. Some modern players trick them up but Mantles and such they are pretty tough to beat.
Entertainment and Music are the items I think they are lacking.
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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on
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How does PSA authenticate A simple squiggly line as a signature?
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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on
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I agree Rick.
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That is one heck of a statement that you made about Press Pass Collectibles Jason. I am not sure how you would know about such a thing being "absolutely fact".
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JSA authenticated this and I personally think this is a Mantle forgery. This doesn't look typical of the authentic Mantle autographs I've seen.
Randy, you said you have NEVER seen a JSA authenticated Mantle that was questionable. Do you not think this is questionable? At best......THIS IS QUESTIONABLE.
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This item just sold on ebay for 199.00 and I would suspect that real Mantle collectors knew it was bad or it would have went for a bit more. Here is the link to the completed auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/JSA-MICKEY-MANTLE-DON-MATTINGLY-DUAL-SIGNED...
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Sorry,
I studied this one when Ryan said it was a forgery and I disagree. The first "M" is a little strange but the rest of the autograph matches known authentic exemplars IMO. So no, I still have not seen one I think they authenticated that was not genuine and I too have studied Mantle for years.
If I remember correctly, Christopher Williams never chimed in on this item when Ryan posted it.
Maybe, he will see this and give his opinion now. I personally would like to hear his opinion on this one.
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