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We need rules of conduct for Autograph Magazine Live. We're going to put them in place today.

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Sam, you said:

Same buyer though correct? And no refund given?

As I recall, Epperson asked for a copy of the receipt but never received it. But don't rely on me for this. Roger joins the discussion on it early in the RR discussion:

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/rr-auction-lawsuit-w...

Yes, same buyer.

If they offered a refund why is this case happening?

That's the kicker.  We know they didn't immediately offer a refund, the first thing they did was talk to PSA about the rejections.  It's going to come down to how long of a process it was before the refund was offered and how difficult it was to get them to the point of finally offering a refund, if the refund was ever in fact formally offered at all before the suit.  That is why in the depo's the plaintiff's lawyer is focusing on how difficult the process was to obtain the refund, not the fact that the refund was ever offered.

Sam, I thought the same thing. It seems the only hang-up was Johnson not returning the items.

Mike T, where was it stated the first thing rr did was talk to PSA about the rejections? I didn't catch that. Also, if I was RR, I'd probably call to verify the rejection paperwork was legit especially with this kind of money.

One other thing, how come the consignor(s) of the items is not being brought up? Couldn't RR go after them for their money back as well?

It was part of the initial case study, also in the emails. The one email suggests that Mr. Eaton went to PSA to try to get the ruling reversed, not to verify the rejections.

Once the auction house authenticates and sells the consignors material the ownness is on the auction house according to their policies. Besides, they are standing by the items as authentic so going back to the consignor would only be an admission of guilt. They've come too far to go back now.

We don't know why Johnson did not return the items, but we also don't know when he was given permission to do so.  The case is more about the timeline and what the process was to get a refund than it is about the refund actually taking place or not. If he had to fight for a refund, which it appears he had to do, then he has a case. If the refund was immediately offered and he just refused to return the items then there is no case.

Wouldn't the case been thrown out if the refund was offered?

Apparently so. This is from the RR Auction Consignment Agreement:

Should a sold item be returned to RRAuction due to the questioning of proper title and/or doubtful authenticity (final decision on authenticity to be determined by RRAuction), you agree to reimburse RRAuction the proceeds you were previously paid for the sale of that item. This stipulation of reimbursement is without time limit.

Thanks for the answer Ballroom. If I was RR when this first happened, I refund the money to the buyer, am ticked I lost my buyer's premium and go after the consignor. It is a hassle but better than being out so many thousands. The only problem would be if you couldn't collect from the consignor for some reason. Anyone know who consigned any of the questioned items?

Ballroom and Chad
I think the consigner isn't involved because of their statement here "final decision on authenticity to be determined by RRAuction"

R&R stands by their decision and haven't deemed the autos to be forgeries therefore the consigner is off the hook (that's how I read it anyway)

Chad, I'm actually not sure when that clause took effect. It's possible that the items at issue were sold prior to that time.

I think it's fine that information is coming out on the case. I do not think it's right to post depositions before a trial.

fair enough , let me ask you straight up cause you always claim to be unbiased and when put on the spot refuse to respond

If you spent 10 k with someone and PSA said it was no good ...would you keep the item or want a refund ?

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