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Authenticity is Everything
The Great American Blues Players Signature Study: Please Add Your Examples
Hello everyone,
I have been wanting to start a thread on this for a long time, and i figure now is as good of a time as any. I collect primary guitar players, and have been selling alot of them off recently, but one thing i continue to collect are the great old blues guitar players. Their is something about the Delta Blues traveling lifestyle that holds alot of wonder for me. These guys laid the foundation of modern music and they inspired many, if not most, of the musicians working today. Most think of Robert Johnson when they think of the great Blues players, but their are so so many others that deserve mention and tons of respect.
As anyone who has ever studied early blues signatures knows, they are incredibly difficult to authenticate or even find at times. You have guys like Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, BB King just to name a few whose signature examples can readily be found. But aside from a few key players, autographs from these guys are very hard to find. And when you find one, often you really have to trust your source or do some serious research. And even then you often cant find examples.
So i thought this would be a good thread that may help future collectors out with examples we think are authentic. Please post examples of blues signatures that you like and want to share. Guys like Buddy Guy and BB King probably dont need to be posted in mass b/c their signatures are so abundant, but dont hesitate if you would like to post some.
I hope this can turn into a good database, and really the only one of its kind on the net. I have many examples from many different sources and if someone doesnt want their picture posted just leave a comment and i will delete it.
I am going to start this off with Albert King. You can find Albert King signatures from time to time, and of the 3 King's, he is the next most available after BB. Alberts signatures are typically sloppy, shaky, and can take on a few forms. Albert often write "Love You" before his signature, and his typical signature takes the form of A. King. I have also seen variations including "A.B. King". King often would not write out King fully and the formation would flow from the K almost into the g. I have seen my fair share of forgeries with Albert, but his signature can be authenticated in most instances in my opinion. Here are some examples with sources:
This is one album i used to own and recently sold on RR Auction. It came from "Mr. Bebop", of Larrys Books and Autographs. He specializes in blues signatures and this was a great example of king.
These next images came from RR Auction
The Ace of Spades album is a nice example, and the rarer A.B. King signature. The middle cut display is more atypical. This one in my eyes can go either way but is probably good. The A looks typical but the King is a little more unusual. But he did do this from time to time in his shorter signature versions. The bottom example is a typical King signature.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Before i leave for the night, i almost forgot too post my own Albert King signature. This is a very rare piece form a collector in Switzerland and features Freddie King, who i will cover later, on the front, and Albert on the back.
I also should add that Albert King signatures are fairly rare. I typically see between 6 and 12 for sale each year between the major auctions and ebay. Best buy for a potential customer, i would say ebay, but you have to make sure you are fluent in his signature, b/c forgeries do pop up on Albert. You can count on that you will probably see between 1 to 3 between ebay UK and USA each year. As long as you know his signature, you can typically get a much better price than at a premium auction. I would put Alberts signature anywhere from 100 to 300 dollars. I have seen a few authentic cuts that went for a little over 100, but most go for around the 200 to 250 mark, and that includes LP's.
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Well guys,
I was very luck to have just run into a killer deal on ebay. A storage locker buyer was selling some signed Living Blues Magazines that were in a locker. And i was able to purchase several magazines for a steal. I purchased several including: Albert King, Yank Rachell, Bid Daddy Kinsey, Snooky Pryor, and Luther Tucker. And Paid around 35 bucks for each, and that applied to the Albert King too!!!! Sometimes you can just get really lucky. The same seller sold a beautiful John Lee Hooker signed magazine from the same locker a little while back for 40 dollars BIN, but i didnt see that one, otherwise i would have snatched it too. The Albert King has what looks like a little ink smudge or possible water damage to the lower part of the magazine, but it doesnt really detract form it at all. A great buy at a steal of a price. Here are the pics included the JLH that sold a while back.
I had been after a Yank Rachell for a good while, and i should add that this signature appears to be from late in his life. Yank had a neater signature for a good part of his career, but towards the end of his life, the signatures often became messy, and i have seen several like the one pictured below.
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Back again today,
And thought i would start things off with some very rare autographs. Unfortunately i dont have more than one example each of these guys, but sometimes thats all you can get. The first is from Homesick James, the cousin of guitar legend Elmore James. Homesick autographs are very rare, but do appear from time to time. I have seen a half dozen in my years of collecting, including the one i own. Unfortunately i didnt save these items, but they all shared the same common characteristics. Despite his rarity, Homesick isnt a terribly valuable autograph, averaging between 75 and 100 dollars. Homesick lived into the mid 2000's, so he was readily available, he just didnt like to sign autographs.
I have a pretty cool story on my Homesick item that shows his stubbornness with autographs. I purchased many of my autographs from a collector who worked with and was around the blues giants. He was very good friends with Robert Lockwood Jr. and would often hang out with him at shows and afterwords at RJL's house. He told me that he had been after Homesick to sign an item for him all day, up to and after Homesick's performance, but Homesick wouldnt sign. It wasnt until they were all hanging out at Robert Lockwoods Jr.'s that he finally had success. He asked Homesick to sign again, and Homesick refused. Robert Lockwood Jr. stepped forward though and said "sign for the boy", and Homesick signed. I have heard stories like this about Homesick before, and he didnt seem to be to fond of signing autographs for white guys. Not to imply he was a racist, but this man came from a time and experienced things that could build hatred and disgust, so i can understand some hard feelings. But from what i heard he was a pain in the butt. But he was still a great slide guitar player, and he should be, considering he learned from the best slide guitarist that ever lived, Elmore James. Here is an example of Homesick's autograph that i own: Homesick autos are consistent and the others i have seen look just like this one.
While we are talking the James clan, i would like to share an unbelievably rare autograph. I wish i could say i owned it and was sure it was authentic, but i cant say either. Earlier this year in an RR auction, an item came up that i knew i was going to bid heavy on, and others felt the same. It was a signed LP jacket from Elmore James himself. Unfortunately the auction was pulled within days after it opened. The cause of this i cant say. Maybe it was found to be not authentic, or maybe someone made them an offer they couldnt refuse, lol. Its hard to say. What i can say is that i have never found another example of an Elmore James autograph EVER!!. I would love to see one if anyone out their has one that is authentic. Their is just nothing to compare with. In my opinion, finding an Elmore James auto is like finding a Robert Johnson autograph, they are that rare. In any event, i cant guarantee the authenticity of this piece, but at least its an example that is out their to compare with. Elmore James is known as the father of slide guitar and one of the greatest guitarists to ever live. He influenced everyone, and was a true innovator. An Elmore James autograph value is really hard to say. I would guess it would command at least 2000 dollars and probably a good bit more. We are talking low Beatles item prices here. I would guess an autograph would go for between 1000 to 5000 depending on item and condition. But thats just complete guessing. Blues autographs are so popular now, especially in Japan, that prices can easily go through the ceiling.
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Another amazing guitarist and singer was Josh White. White is another legend whose name isnt in the mainstream today like it should be. Among blues collectors he is a giant, but to the broad public, he is largely unknown today. White was an incredibly gifted artist and often recorded under the name "Pinewood Tom" in his early days.
White autographs are quite rare, but White is one of those fellows whose autograph price doesnt make a whole lot of sense. For instance, White died in the late sixties, and his signature is quite rare, although he signed a good bit in his day. Yet despite its rarity, and limited availability, surprisingly they come up in ebay type auctions several times a year. Which is strange b/c other autographs of similar rarity, hardly ever show up at such auctions.
Price is also strange. I have an inscribed Josh White album that i purchased off ebay for under 50 dollars. Which is so low, i almost felt i was taking advantage of them, but they set the buy it now price, so i was happy to pay it. At other times i have seen simple photographs sell for several hundred dollars, and sometimes as much as 500 dollars. Recently RR auction had an authentic White album for sale but received zero bids, and i didnt save the image. Which again is so strange b/c he is such a giant in the blue world, and one day a person is willing to pay hundreds and the next nothing at all. I know that doesnt make much sense, but thats my experience with White. For the best deal, id watch ebay and be patient.
Here are some examples:
Here is my Josh White LP, not the long swoop on the J, this is a prominent characteristic in Whites autographs most of the time.
Here is a photo from Mr. Bebop, signed just "Josh", which i have seen before at times
The autograph on this one is hard to see and you probably will have to blow it up if you can, but thats the best i could do. It came from google, but from what i can tell, its authentic.
This one comes from google too, but i believe it has a shot at being authentic. The King signature i dont know about, but the White signature has some positives. I am not entirely sure on it, but would not cross it off as an exemplar that deserves more study.
This one comes from History for Sale and looks authentic as well.
White autographs are quite rare, but they can be had for a great price, considering the amount of them out their.
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Next up was a true blues legend, and until he died in 2006, the last living link to the father of guitar himself, Robert Johnson. I am talking of course about the legendary Robert Jr. Lockwood. Most people call RJL, Robert Lockwood Jr, and i at times refer to him as that as well, but he really preferred to be calling Robert Jr. Lockwood. He was a guitar giant and one of the best blues players to ever live.
Lockwoods guitar skills have been widely reported on, but Lockwood received almost as much exposure for his friendship with Robert Johnson, as he did for his playing. Which had to have been slightly annoying. Robert Johnson has fascinated generations of guitarists. Lockwood would often tell this story about Johnson,, some parts im sure 2nd hand. Apparently Johnson originally, like most of us at first, was a bad guitarist, and just happy to join in with other players, who were annoyed with his inexperience. Then something happened that is the stuff of myth, Johnson disappeared and the next time people saw him perform he not only could sing great, but he had guitar skills unmatched by any of his peers. All of the sudden Johnson could play circles around the same guys who didnt want to play with him before. RJL often commented that he was amazed by this.
According to the story, Johnson achieved his guitar skills by selling his soul to the devil in exchange for his skills. Johnson apparently gave the story that he walked out to the crossroads in the middle of the night and their met a tall figure, and from that day on, he was a guitar phenom. Is it true?? I want get into religion, although i do think that selling ones soul, may not just be a concept or metaphor. But one thing is for sure, from that moment, Johnson was set to influence not just every guitarist, but also pretty much every musician period. Johnson's experience at the crossroads, is of course where we get Crossroad Blues, and all the festivals surrounding Crossroads performed by Clapton and friends, and basically where we get the whole concept of a crossroads as a metaphor. But you see..............Here i go giving Johnson the publicity when talking about Lockwood. Its easy to do.
But Lockwood knew Robert Johnson well, and as an interesting side point. Fairly recently a very old video came to light that reportedly showed Robert Johnson playing. This stirred the blues community to its core. The footage made its rounds, but people such as Robert JR. Lockwood, Honeyboy Edwards, and Henry Townshend all said it wasnt Robert, and now most agree its not. But it does look kinda like him, and is a phenomenal piece of footage of the day showing how guitar used to be. And the guitarist was obviously gifted. This footage is also amazing b/c it shows a conference that had many blues titans in attendance such as RJL, Henry Townsend and others. What is it with all these titans such as RJL, Townsend, and Homesick passing away in 2006? Not cool, lol. But i always thought this footage was very funny when the presenter asks RJL if the player in the footage looked like Elmore James, who Lockwood also was good friends with, and RJL just looks at him and laughs and says No, in a very emphatic and funny way. Can you imagine what all RJL saw in his life?? The people he knew?? The stories he could tell???? Truly an icon and a guitar titan.
Here is a link to the alleged video of Johnson that shows RJL commenting. A must watch for a blues fan just to see the great old footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSV69BO2Uak
RJL signatures are really not all that rare. You can find them on ebay periodically and on other autograph sites such as Mr. Bebop. RJL autographs are fairly common in their characteristics, although he had a neater signature he would give, and a more jumbled messy signature as well. But they both can be identified fairly easy. RJL was a good signer and you can expect to pay realistically between 45 and 75 dollars. I personally wouldnt pay more than 50 dollars, but that is just me, and you can find his autographs for that with some patience on ebay.
Here are some examples below:
Here is an example of RJL that i used to own but traded. This is his messier signature style.
Here is a very rare example i own. I am sorry that pieces got cut off, and i will correct that shortly, i just now noticed it. What makes this so rare is that the item signed is a one of a kind CD cut given to the friend i referenced above who was very good friends with RJL.
Here is an example from Larry at Mr. Bebop. This shows his 2 signature styles on one photo. The messy version vertically, and the cleaner version horizontally. This signature style initially gave me some issues (cleaner style), b/c it was quite a bit different in some aspects to his messier, more common version. I originally had thoughts that the clean version might have been secretarial, but my mind has since changed. And i have seen examples of this cleaner version from trusted IP dealers, so i do believe both styles to be legit.
Here is an example from Ebay, and is more consistent with the cleaner signature style. I do believe this to be authentic, although the J in "Jr." is neater than normal, even for his clean sig.
Here is another example from ebay, although i do feel its authentic. It has some characteristics of both his messy and clean signature style.
In conclusion, RJL was just an asset to the historical, and musical communities. He was a link to a past world that many of us, including myself, stand in wonder of. He was also a guitar giant and great singer. When you think of the best blues players in history, Lockwood will always come up
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Next up i thought we could look at one of the most important west coast blues players to have ever lived, Mr. Lowell Fulson. Fulson played with the likes of T Bone Walker and Ray Charles just to name a few. And his songs have been covered by so many people, including Elvis.
Fulsons autographs are fairly rare. Between ebay USA and UK, i would say that maybe 2 to 3 come up per year. Mr. Bebop has several, but very few hit the market a year. Fulson lived into the 90s and was a good signer, but people dont want to give them up, so you dont see many hit the market. His signature style is very consistent, although he occasionally would form the F in Fulson in a slightly different manner. Fulson signatures typically command anywhere from 50 to 150 dollars. Ebay is probably the best bet for a good deal, but always make sure to study up on these guys before you decide to go that route.
Here are some examples below that i believe to be legit.
Here is a nice example from Mr. Bebop
Here is a Fulson from google that i believe to be authentic
Here is another Fulson from google which looks good to me
Here is an interesting item that came from Heritage auction. Its a dual signed guitar owned by Fulson. The signature is far neater than any i have seen, but the fact that it was signed for a special person or occasion can explain that. And it does have his same characteristics although the F in Fulson is a little unusual. But he did form his F like that on occasion.
Here is a Fulson that i own, purchased off of ebay. The signatures are faded, but look better than the pic makes it out to be. It actually was signed twice, but the first signature attempt didnt take well. The 2nd not much better, but it still is a nice piece.
This is the same item that i own, and shows the first attempt in the darker portion of the photo, signed only "Lowell".
All in all, Fulson is a blues legend, and very desirable. They almost always sell with no problems soon after they are listed. Fulson signatures pop up every year, but you have to be patient and vigilant.
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Hi Guys,
I recently got some really cool new Fulson items in for my collection as well. And for any of you out there looking for an authentic Lowell Fulson, i suggest ebay searching for "lowell fulson signed". There is a seller on there, by the name of Craig Moerer, i believe. He has had 3 signed Fulson LPs in the last month. He obviously got in a large lot of signed items, and the Fulsons were part of it. They are authentic in my opinion, and in great condition. And there is only one left, and its a BIN for 40 dollars on an LP. Guys if you want his sig, jump on it, i doubt you will see a good one any time soon. I literally searched ebay for around a year and a half to find the first Fulson that i own now. Then, as luck would have it, this last month, i was able to obtain 2 new ones. Check them out guys. One is on a napkin, that was signed at BB King's club, and it also came with a signed napkin from fellow guitarist Magic Slim. Thanks for looking guys, and somebody get that other Fulson, lol.
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Hi guys, now is a great time to buy a Fulson signature in addition to a Little Milton signature. You can pick up an authentic LP (in my opinion) or living blues magazine signed for right around 40 bucks. A steal in my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Tiia Santavirta on
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My in person autographs William Clarke Blues Band feat. Lowell Fulson. They were in Finland in 3.10.1988.
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Next up i thought we could look at the 3rd in the great line of "Kings", none other than Freddie King. Freddie was another guitar master and could play with blistering speed. King combined Texas and Chicago blues styles into his own unique sound, and he inspired so many guitarists such as Stevie Ray V.
Freddie signatures are very very rare. They typically dont come up for auction period, and are by far the rarest of the 3 "kings" (albert king, b.b. king, freddie king). If you are lucky and search ebay USA and UK daily you may find one every year or two. But even that is rare. They occasionally pop up on large auction sites, but even that is very rare. Freddie died relatively young, living into the seventies, and their just arent many examples around period. B/c of the rarity, i would say that you are looking at a price range of 200 dollars for something small like a cut, up to 4 or 5 hundred for more desirable items. I dont have many examples of King b/c of the rarity, and feel very luck to own one.
Here are a few examples:
Here is my photo. You will notice the date change in a different color pen. This was done to correct the date by the original owner as Freddie didnt write the correct date originally.
Here is another Freddie example that comes from google i believe
I included this item b/c in my opinion this is an example of a Freddie King forgery. And you do see forgeries on him come up regularly. Note that Freddie's name isnt even spelled right. Its spelled "Freddy", and not Freddie. And the signature style is not correct in my opinion.
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Hi guys,
Im happy to add another example of Freddie King to the study. This one comes from a fellow AML members collection, and is a beauty. Believe it or not, this item was signed for the same person, and probably at the same time, as the Freddie King that i own. A very big coincidence that the owners of both would end up here at AML.
This is a beauty:
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