All Discussions Tagged 'forgers' - Autograph Live2024-03-28T22:21:37Zhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topic/listForTag?tag=forgers&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAAfes (Up in arms)tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-10-27:3524372:Topic:1824852011-10-27T01:59:57.472ZSean Coxhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/SeanCox
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>After a few emails back and forth with Mr. Cyrkin I have decided to start a discussion or rather a revolution. There comes a time when it is necessary to fight against something that has become so wrong that it should no longer be. Something that was once small but has become so big, still no less wrong, that must be made small again. It may be a bit overkill but I will do my part it putting an end to at the very least one small part of a corrupt system that takes…</p>
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>After a few emails back and forth with Mr. Cyrkin I have decided to start a discussion or rather a revolution. There comes a time when it is necessary to fight against something that has become so wrong that it should no longer be. Something that was once small but has become so big, still no less wrong, that must be made small again. It may be a bit overkill but I will do my part it putting an end to at the very least one small part of a corrupt system that takes advantage of any and everyone just to make a dollar.</p>
<p>My story:</p>
<p>I'm in the United States Marine Corps and while on the tail end of my last deployment in Iraq my wife decided to get me a coming home gift. Not knowing better (and why should she think different) she purchased an autographed picture of Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams from the AAfes auction site. When I returned home to such a thoughtful gift I was more than excited. She got me one of the best gifts you could get beside making it home and seeing my family again. It wasn't until later down the road that I started to research said name gift, only to find that everything coming from these companies are fakes. Needless to say I was infuriated.</p>
<p>I am by no means trying to say that the military is untouchable or a "no fly zone" for scams. Anybody trying to make a quick buck will try and allot of times with great success take advantage of the young men and women in the military. Being able to gain access to our online shopping and still be around perplexes me. the base news papers alone will not let anything like this happen. you wont find a car dealership that has been know to conduct shady business and if you do see it it will quickly be removed. So why on earth are they still aloud to operate on the secured website that is for military members and their families only? Is AAfes not watched over for these types of things? I will not stand for this any longer and I hope that there are other members out there that will join me in putting a stop to it. If it has not already then we will do everything we can to make it know to the higher headquarters of AAfes.</p>
<p>Again it may be a bit overkill but one small step for true collectors and one large jail for all forgers and their associates who make this hobby (way of life for some) so hard to enjoy nowadays.</p>
<p>Thank you all for listening to me go on and on. I hope to hear from you all and maybe even join in.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio: Authenticating Baseball Forger Favoritestag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-03-29:3524372:Topic:757992011-03-29T16:05:30.185ZLarry Rosenbaumhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/LarryRosenbaum
<em><strong> </strong></em><span class="font-size-2" style="font-family: georgia,palatino;">It is unquestionable that Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, and Joe DiMaggio have been American sports icons since the mid-20th century. It comes as no surprise that these three have been favorites of autograph collectors since the advent of autograph and card shows in the 1980’s. Unfortunately it is equally unsurprising, as attested to in the FBI’s famous 1990s Operation Bullpen, that they are also the three…</span>
<em><strong> </strong></em><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">It is unquestionable that Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, and Joe DiMaggio have been American sports icons since the mid-20th century. It comes as no surprise that these three have been favorites of autograph collectors since the advent of autograph and card shows in the 1980’s. Unfortunately it is equally unsurprising, as attested to in the FBI’s famous 1990s Operation Bullpen, that they are also the three most forged sports autographs. Although most experts believe the forgery problem in sports memorabilia has lessoned tremendously since Operation Bullpen (estimated at that time to be “between $500,000,000 and $900,000,000” by the FBI), sadly large numbers of forged material still exist.</span><br/>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">While it would require far more than a single article to educate the autograph collector to detect Mantle, Williams and DiMaggio forgeries, there are some general as well as specific warning keys to these three autographs that may aid in detecting possible forgeries.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2"><br/></span></p>
<p><strong>Genuine Mantle, Williams & DiMaggio signed photo provided by EAC Gallery.<br/>Click to enlarge:</strong></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109899006?profile=original"><img width="750" class="align-left" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109899006?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="750"/></a><br/></span></p>
<br/>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109898913?profile=original"><img width="750" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109898913?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="750"/></a><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109898969?profile=original"><img width="750" class="align-left" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109898969?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="750"/></a></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2"><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109898986?profile=original"><img class="align-left" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/109898986?profile=original" width="744"/></a>As a general rule, one of the first things I examine in an autograph is its feel – how it was written. When an individual signs his name there should be an easy, smooth flow to the signature. We’ve all signed our names countless times, and we don’t need to think about it. An item we offered in one of our past auctions was a sheet of paper signed several times by Joe Jackson. Jackson, who was almost completely illiterate, actually had to practice, in essence work at, writing his name prior to signing documents. Likewise, when a forger writes a signature, he or she is working at it and therefore upon close examination it’s often possible to detect such warning keys as a slowness of motion, stops and starts at inappropriate spots, and possibly even a shakiness in the writing. An invaluable aid to help detect these keys, taught to me by John Reznikoff of University Archives many years ago, is to turn the autograph upside down. When you view an autograph in an unnatural position these warning keys are often easier to detect.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">In addition to such general warning keys there are specific warning keys, unique to an individual’s autograph, to keep an eye out for.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">In the 1980’s and 1990’s Mickey Mantle stated on numerous occasions that he was blessed to be able to earn more money signing his name at one single weekend show than his father had earned in an entire year working as a coal miner. Because of this Mantle always felt his fans were deserving of a clear, elegant signature. In authentic Mickey Mantle autographs Mickey would always end the “y” in “Mickey” on an upswing, and because he would be quickly flowing through his signature, he therefore started the “M” in “Mantle” on a higher level or plane than he had started the “M” in “Mickey”. Most forgers, because they were “working” on writing Mantle’s signature, would pause after completing “Mickey” and begin anew in writing “Mantle”, therefore placing “Mantle” on more of a straight line with “Mickey”. If one places a ruler or sheet of paper straight across the item Mantle signed (not straight across the signature) all that appears below the ruler or paper of an authentic Mantle is the bottom portion of the “M” in “Mickey”. In the case of most forgeries the ruler or paper completely covers the entire signature. Another difficulty forgers have with Mantle’s signature was his unique way of looping the bottom portion of his “M”. Such curved lines were executed in one easy movement by Mantle, but are most often elongated by forgers who again are “working” the signature. Such slow, elongated forgeries are especially easy to recognize on baseballs as their curved surfaces only add to the forger’s difficulty.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">In the case of Ted Williams autographs, with the exception of the capital “W” in Williams, Ted would consistently make the size of all the letters in his last time nearly the same exact size. Most telling is the “illia”, with the “l”s just ever so slightly taller than the “i”s, and the “a” as tall as the “l”s. Try as they may, most forgers simply can’t undo years of training and habit causing their “l”s to be significantly taller than their “i”s, and their “a” significantly shorter than their “l”s. Williams also connected the “W” in “Williams” to the “ed” in “Ted” with a swirl that gave forgers difficulty in replicating in the same, easy, flowing movement as appears in authentic examples. Also of interest, in addition to the many Williams intentional forgeries in existence, Williams revealed late in his life that during his playing days his signature on team signed balls was often a “clubhouse” example, not penned by him.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">Regarding Joe DiMaggio’s autograph, problems for forgers begin with the first letter in Joe. Like the “M”s in Mantle’s autograph, the “J” in “Joe”, which appears as two loops, a larger loop on top and a smaller one below, were created by curved lines which are the hardest to duplicate without leaving telltale signs of slowness or inappropriate stops and starts. In addition, DiMaggio would pen his “J”s so that the lower loop would be written on top of (literally written over) the upper loop in two places. For some inexplicable reason, a significant percentage of DiMaggio forgeries flow in the opposite direction, with the upper loop covering the lower one. An inexpensive magnifier or jeweler’s loop will aid in viewing this detail. Finally, the general feel of an authentic DiMaggio autograph is often somewhat sloppy, in the sense that the spacing between letters is uneven, obviously much more so in his second name. Again due to the fact that forgers are working rather than simply signing, the spacing they place between each letter is far more uniform.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: georgia,palatino;" class="font-size-2">Finally, the age-old adage “experience is the best teacher” is indeed appropriate here. The building of as extensive a library of exemplars as possible, of both authentic and fake examples, would be of help to visualize these and additional warning keys, and tremendously assist in the detection of forgeries.</span></p> "Monsters Behind the Door: The Power Struggle in Autographs Today" By Kevin Nelsontag:live.autographmagazine.com,2010-10-11:3524372:Topic:403792010-10-11T20:13:57.379ZSteve Cyrkin, Adminhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/SteveCyrkin
Discuss Kevin Nelson's "<a href="http://autographmagazine.com/2010/10/monsters-behind-the-door-autograph-forgery-sellers/">Monsters Behind the Door: The Power Struggle in Autographs Today</a>"<br/>
Discuss Kevin Nelson's "<a href="http://autographmagazine.com/2010/10/monsters-behind-the-door-autograph-forgery-sellers/">Monsters Behind the Door: The Power Struggle in Autographs Today</a>"<br/>