First Lady autographs - Autograph Live2024-03-29T10:31:45Zhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/first-lady-autographs?commentId=3524372%3AComment%3A1126141&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noTo each his own.tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-10-14:3524372:Comment:11261412017-10-14T16:56:40.440ZHerman Darvickhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/HermanDarvick
<p>To each his own.</p>
<p>To each his own.</p> Lane's place in a First Lady…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-10-14:3524372:Comment:11262302017-10-14T16:53:00.660ZMike Whitehttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/MikeWhite
<p>Lane's place in a First Lady collection would be due to her performing the duties of the White House hostess, a point that I addressed twice.</p>
<p>In my first message:</p>
<blockquote><p>"First Lady" is more directly related to the "White House hostess" than to the wife/wives that a President had before or after he took office, and whether or not the "hostess" even belongs in a "First Lady" collection is arguable.</p>
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<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">And my…</span></p>
<p>Lane's place in a First Lady collection would be due to her performing the duties of the White House hostess, a point that I addressed twice.</p>
<p>In my first message:</p>
<blockquote><p>"First Lady" is more directly related to the "White House hostess" than to the wife/wives that a President had before or after he took office, and whether or not the "hostess" even belongs in a "First Lady" collection is arguable.</p>
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<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">And my second:</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">As I said, the White House hostess is debatable as an addition to a First Lady collection...</span></p>
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<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">That decision would, as I alluded to, come down to what definition of "First Lady" one was using. The broadest definition, which would encompass the greatest number of people without straying from the spirit of the term, would be "The individual married to the President during his time in office and/or performing the hostess duties at the White House". The narrower definitions would be an offshoot of one of those two branches.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">By the broadest definition, Lane qualifies. Same with if you look at the First Lady as an evolution of the hostess role, rather than simply the wife role, as many do.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">However, one can't fault a collector for sticking to the simplest definition, which ignores everything except the marital status of the couple during the Presidency. Even today, people debate the definition of the term & what holding it means. </span></p> Merriam-Webster defines "Firs…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-10-14:3524372:Comment:11262972017-10-14T16:38:37.773ZHerman Darvickhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/HermanDarvick
<p>Merriam-Webster defines "First Lady" as "the wife or hostess of the chief executive of a country or jurisdiction." That would include bachelor Presidents James Buchanan's niece and Grover Cleveland's sister and the many women who acted as Hostess of the White House for widowed Presidents.</p>
<p>Merriam-Webster defines "First Lady" as "the wife or hostess of the chief executive of a country or jurisdiction." That would include bachelor Presidents James Buchanan's niece and Grover Cleveland's sister and the many women who acted as Hostess of the White House for widowed Presidents.</p> I'd like to hear from collec…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-10-14:3524372:Comment:11262212017-10-14T16:32:32.912ZMike Whitehttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/MikeWhite
<blockquote><p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;"> I'd like to hear from collectors of First Ladies' autographs.</span></p>
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<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">You just heard from one such individual.</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">Not someone who collects a…</span></p>
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<blockquote><p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;"> I'd like to hear from collectors of First Ladies' autographs.</span></p>
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<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">You just heard from one such individual.</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">Not someone who collects a</span><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;">utographs of former/future wives of Presidents or mothers of the President's children.</span></p>
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<p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;">Any person who strictly collects autographs from First Ladies wouldn't, by definition, collect autographs from the individuals you named, as the individuals you named aren't, by definition, First Ladies.</span></p>
<p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;">If you wish to limit it as you did in the above quote, then the results of the limitation should be obvious and apparent. The autographs of former/future wives of Presidents or the mothers of their children would be, by definition, in a collection of autographs of those individuals, while a collection of the autographs of the First Ladies would contain only autographs of First Ladies.</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; xg-p: static !important;">"</span>Would you want the autograph of Rachel Jackson or Ellen Arthur in your collection?"</span></p>
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<p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;">They have as much of a place in a collection of First Ladies as they do in a collection of astronauts. Any collection that holds them is not a collection of First Lady signatures, since those women were never the First Lady.</span></p>
<p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;">There is, like I mentioned, a historical value to them & a reason to collect them, but since you insist upon only speaking to strict First Lady collectors who collect only First Ladies and not "<span>a</span><span>utographs of former/future wives of Presidents or mothers of the President's children", then I can tell you on their behalf that the answer is "No".</span></span></p>
<p><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; color: #454545; xg-p: static !important;">As I said, the White House hostess is debatable as an addition to a First Lady collection, but, even through that lens, there's no logical debate to be had about the individuals you're naming. They</span><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;"> aren't the First Lady by any rational definition, and, thus, their autographs in a First Lady collection would turn that collection into a First Lady + collection.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: #454545; font-size: 14px;">It'd be one thing if you asked if there's historical value to the signatures of a President's first wife, but, instead, you're asking a question that you could've answered yourself: "If you strictly collect the autographs of First Ladies, do you want a signature in your collection that's not from a First Lady? (Don't answer if you collect other categories that those signatures could fall into, such as Presidents' wives.)"</span></p> My source, Charles Hamilton,…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-10-14:3524372:Comment:11260242017-10-14T15:43:11.398ZHerman Darvickhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/HermanDarvick
<p>My source, Charles Hamilton, is a pioneer in the field of autograph collecting. Before him, the general public considered collecting autographs as something people do when they meet baseball players and movie stars. I'd like to hear from collectors of First Ladies' autographs. Not someone who collects a<span>utographs of former/future wives of Presidents or mothers of the President's children. "</span>Would you want the autograph of Rachel Jackson or Ellen Arthur in your collection?"</p>
<p>My source, Charles Hamilton, is a pioneer in the field of autograph collecting. Before him, the general public considered collecting autographs as something people do when they meet baseball players and movie stars. I'd like to hear from collectors of First Ladies' autographs. Not someone who collects a<span>utographs of former/future wives of Presidents or mothers of the President's children. "</span>Would you want the autograph of Rachel Jackson or Ellen Arthur in your collection?"</p> Should we also add the past w…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-10-14:3524372:Comment:11260162017-10-14T11:24:57.545ZMike Whitehttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/MikeWhite
<div class="discussion" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; xg-p: relative; zoom: 1; color: #454545;"></div>
<div class="discussion" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-image: initial; background-xg-p: initial; background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; font-size: 14px; xg-p: relative; zoom: 1; color: #454545;"><div class="description" style="margin: 0px 0px 0.7em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; text-overflow: ellipsis; overflow: hidden;"><div class="xg_user_generated" style="margin: 5px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><blockquote><p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;">Should we also add the past wives of Presidents Ronald Reagan (Jane Wyman), and Donald Trump (Melania Trump, Marla Maples Trump) to a collection of First Ladies?</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;">That'd depend--are you collecting the wives of US Presidents/the mothers of their children are you collecting the First Ladies of the United States?</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;">I understand that you're taking your source's argument to its logical conclusion, but you appear to be doing so with the impression that your source's argument is a given. I wouldn't put his examples in the category of "First Lady" any more than I'd do with yours (which is to say I wouldn't).</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;">"First Lady" is more directly related to the "White House hostess" than to the wife/wives that a President had before or after he took office, and whether or not the "hostess" even belongs in a "First Lady" collection is arguable.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;">While a case could easily be made that there are historical reasons to collect autographs from the "wives of Presidents" category, such as the ones mentioned by both you & your source, those reasons (and autographs) don't fall under the "First Lady" umbrella.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; min-height: 1em; xg-p: static !important;"><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; font-size: 1em; xg-p: static !important;">There's nothing wrong with collecting autographs from the former/future wives of Presidents or collecting autographs from the mothers of the President's children, but if that's what you're doing, then that's what you're doing. Calling it a "First Ladies" collection is intellectually dishonest.</span></p>
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