Hello,

Will be adding an Ali to my boxing collection.

Choosing between these two, and so far both look OK to me.

Been looking at authenticated pieces for comparison and I've also read a really helpful guide at aliautos.com regarding the history of Ali's autograph throughout the years. Based on what Ive read, these look like ones he signed during the 80's to early 90's.

However, Id also appreciate an opinion from you folks here at Autograph Live.

Please let me know what you think and thank you very much!

Thank you very much again!

Kind regards,

Joe

Tags: ali, autograph, muhammad, opinion, real

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Joe,

I'm glad you asked for opinions on the Alis you're considering before you buy. I don't think that either of them are real. I would definitely keep looking.

I totally agree.  The first one is hideous..  and the second one is a mess..

Joe,

The best source for Muhammad Ali exemplars is aliautos.net. Do you still want to get opinions from other collectors like you have been, but that is a tremendous resource.

Thanks for this.

Both are actually authenticated by JSA (I hid this fact to get unbiased opinion from the community and just basing on the specimen itself).

Because of this, do you think JSA is not credible for authenticating Ali's?

Also I contacted Shawn from aliautos.net (as suggested by Steve) and for both photos, Shawn said that it is in his opinion that both are authentic.

Would you care to share more detailed inputs to what puts you off on both?

Like how the "M" is written, etc.? Ive had a discussion with Steve Cyrkin (thru PM) and we had a great back and forth on the intricate details of the signatures.

Would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

Shawn from aliautos.net has an email opinion service. He is reliable and accurate in my opinion and I recommend his service. 

Thanks for this.

I contacted and payed Shawn from aliautos.net fr his quick opinion service and for both photos, Shawn said that it is in his opinion that both are authentic.

Also both are actually authenticated by JSA (I hid this fact to get unbiased opinion from the community and just basing on the specimen itself).

Its very interesting how tricky Ali's autograph is and how we all got different opinions on these. Also how it has a lot of factors such as forgeries, autopens, autos changing as his Parkinson's progresses, etc.

Im actually considering buying one of them because Shawn's quick opinion and the JSA COA to back it up (Shawn's opinion actually weighs more than the JSA COA imo based on his extensive study on aliautos.net).

Cheers and thanks for the healthy discussion! Let me know if you have any more inputs on these new details!

If JSA and Shawn both gave them the thumbs up, I’d feel comfortable with them. 

I agree that both appear fake.

Thanks for this Steve! (Cool how theres 3 Steves that replied to this discussion)

May we know what part or aspect of the signatures put you off on its authenticity?

Just had a great discussion with Steve Cyrkin thru PM on how some letters of the auto were written and how on the blue signature its oddly slanted down.

Would appreciate an input from you also as to why.

Also both are actually authenticated by JSA (I hid this fact to get unbiased opinion from the community and just basing on the specimen itself).

Because of this, do you think JSA isnt that good at authenticating Ali's?

Cheers and thanks for the healthy discussions!

I am surprised that the first one is deemed authentic.  The second one looks fine to me, but the first one is a style I have never seen before.  

I think so too, its an uncommon style.

Although I have seen 3 similar examples from aliautos.net.

http://www.aliautos.net/examples.html

If you check the 90's autograph section on that page, at the rightmost column, there are 3 similar autos with the "d" from Muhammad connecting to the "A" in Ali.

Closest thing I could find that resembles it at the moment.

I still donn’t see it.  The first one here is too smooth and the letters are all rounded, not at all like the Ali’s on shawn’s site.  I just don’t see Ali signing that first one.

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