Should Experts Reveal Their Secret Tells? - Autograph Live2024-03-28T09:27:07Zhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/should-experts-reveal-their?groupUrl=authenticationandforgeryalert&commentId=3524372%3AComment%3A68514&groupId=3524372%3AGroup%3A6080&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI give up on "authentication…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2014-05-03:3524372:Comment:5512082014-05-03T03:40:02.128ZChicklet McTushyhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/DipeshAlesi
I give up on "authentication experts". No such thing. The only person who knows if it is real is the person who obtained the autograph. Even if you have a photo of you with the signer I am not convinced - can be faked with photo shop. I got to the point where I'd get an autograph in person - Lindsey Buckingham for example - then go home and look at samples on line to see if mine looked "real". When you are in a crowded, rushed situation, thrusting something at someone who makes a quick…
I give up on "authentication experts". No such thing. The only person who knows if it is real is the person who obtained the autograph. Even if you have a photo of you with the signer I am not convinced - can be faked with photo shop. I got to the point where I'd get an autograph in person - Lindsey Buckingham for example - then go home and look at samples on line to see if mine looked "real". When you are in a crowded, rushed situation, thrusting something at someone who makes a quick scribble...you can forget about "tells" and points and known examples. How would one verify a Vera Farmiga or Al Pacino scrawl? At the opposite end, a very consistent distinctive signer like Brigitte Bardot is so predictable as to be easily faked. If you didn't get the autograph yourself consider it a fake. I have been giving this a lot…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2012-06-10:3524372:Comment:2460032012-06-10T17:53:25.801ZJet Jacksonhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/JetJackson915
<p>I have been giving this a lot of thought. These forgers have no conscience/morals & operate on the "I'll do it as long as I can get away with it" philosophy, just as ordinary criminals do. And they are are criminals, just like any common burglar or robber. I have no reason to believe they will not incorporate these secrets into their own methodology when handed the secrets on a silver platter. Their stupidity & ignorance is the only way they can be exposed. If we give them the tools…</p>
<p>I have been giving this a lot of thought. These forgers have no conscience/morals & operate on the "I'll do it as long as I can get away with it" philosophy, just as ordinary criminals do. And they are are criminals, just like any common burglar or robber. I have no reason to believe they will not incorporate these secrets into their own methodology when handed the secrets on a silver platter. Their stupidity & ignorance is the only way they can be exposed. If we give them the tools to overcome that, then where are we?? We are up that famous stinky creek with no paddles!</p>
<p>If you are going to spend big bucks on a signature, you are well advised to become an expert on that person's signature BEFORE you plunk down your money. This takes minimally a year of successful searching for many unquestionably genuine signature examples and obviously more time makes you better prepared & knowledgeable. You can, of course, consult with someone who is an expert in the area you seek, but then you may always have that tiny doubt in the back of your mind for that $500 signature you purchased.</p>
<p>That is my take on this issue. Arm ourselves, not the criminals. This echoes the gun control issue. Disarm ourselves while the criminals are armed?? The inevitable result is disaster for honest citizens.</p>
<p> </p> Thanks - thats what I tried t…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-06-07:3524372:Comment:1066042011-06-07T16:05:41.668ZRobert Zarrillohttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/RobertZarrillo
<p>Thanks - thats what I tried to do</p>
<p>Thanks - thats what I tried to do</p> I think you just need to tell…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-06-06:3524372:Comment:1062882011-06-06T18:44:41.618ZSteve Zarellihttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/MrZipper
I think you just need to tell the truth (it's a sloppy in-person signature) and let the chips fall where they may. Chances are it simply won't draw as much interest as a standard typical signature.
I think you just need to tell the truth (it's a sloppy in-person signature) and let the chips fall where they may. Chances are it simply won't draw as much interest as a standard typical signature. What does one do with a signa…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-06-06:3524372:Comment:1059972011-06-06T18:19:59.037ZRobert Zarrillohttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/RobertZarrillo
What does one do with a signature obtained in person - but because it was rushed or the elements were a factor (wind for example) so that it "looks" like a forgery? I have one on eBay right now that a friend of mine got on a golf course and swears that he obtained it in person. Of course, the comments are starting to roll in. Any suggestions? I already added a comment to state that it probably could not be officially authenticated because of a few issues - which I pointed out. The only…
What does one do with a signature obtained in person - but because it was rushed or the elements were a factor (wind for example) so that it "looks" like a forgery? I have one on eBay right now that a friend of mine got on a golf course and swears that he obtained it in person. Of course, the comments are starting to roll in. Any suggestions? I already added a comment to state that it probably could not be officially authenticated because of a few issues - which I pointed out. The only other option is to never try to sell it (of course). The only time I see authentic…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-03-30:3524372:Comment:777862011-03-30T17:11:11.199ZDBhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/DB
<p>The only time I see authentication as a good thing if the item has significant value and breaks $500.00 at the very minimum. LOAs would be higher and starting at $1000.00 I'd like to see their service improve when mistakes are made even though there are complexities to deal with. Way too much stuff has a coa but for the "mom & pop" & casual buyers it's understandable that items below those threshold offer some sort of assurances.</p>
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<p>I still think they get more right…</p>
<p>The only time I see authentication as a good thing if the item has significant value and breaks $500.00 at the very minimum. LOAs would be higher and starting at $1000.00 I'd like to see their service improve when mistakes are made even though there are complexities to deal with. Way too much stuff has a coa but for the "mom & pop" & casual buyers it's understandable that items below those threshold offer some sort of assurances.</p>
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<p>I still think they get more right then they get wrong. It's just that when they get something wrong thats all we hear.</p>
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<p>and mike, if it turns out to be bogus, if I understand your point, the item is fairly worthless sticker or no sticker but there is always EBAY, Coach's Corner & Craigslist.</p> thats what makes this place s…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-03-30:3524372:Comment:779632011-03-30T14:23:30.502ZDBhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/DB
<p>thats what makes this place so interesting as it is chock full of information (mostly good) once you tune out the flame throwing.</p>
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<p>Like the Heston one that comes to mind and yet I wonder if a year from now the forgers will start to figure out how to correct their errors which is why I wonder how much information is "enough".</p>
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<p>Like the mantle one that provides merely it's good, not good, not good, good,more not good but not intricate enough to get a pattern…</p>
<p>thats what makes this place so interesting as it is chock full of information (mostly good) once you tune out the flame throwing.</p>
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<p>Like the Heston one that comes to mind and yet I wonder if a year from now the forgers will start to figure out how to correct their errors which is why I wonder how much information is "enough".</p>
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<p>Like the mantle one that provides merely it's good, not good, not good, good,more not good but not intricate enough to get a pattern down. Since it's in the top 3 forgeries in volume maybe that is not a bad thing but perhaps a "by invite only" for those who are not spammers to delve into deeper intracies (there are problems with that as well).</p> About 3 years ago - and I agr…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-03-30:3524372:Comment:778832011-03-30T14:06:15.759ZRobert Zarrillohttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/RobertZarrillo
<p>About 3 years ago - and I agree and I think I noted it earlier somewhere that Trish was the most helpful person I dealt with at R&R. While I seek whatever aid I can get when it comes to "structure" of the autograph and what to look for, there are certain comments I always take with some caution. For example - Trish told me that because Humphrey Bogart never took the time to add salutations on in person signatures - the album page I had (where the signature looked pretty good really)…</p>
<p>About 3 years ago - and I agree and I think I noted it earlier somewhere that Trish was the most helpful person I dealt with at R&R. While I seek whatever aid I can get when it comes to "structure" of the autograph and what to look for, there are certain comments I always take with some caution. For example - Trish told me that because Humphrey Bogart never took the time to add salutations on in person signatures - the album page I had (where the signature looked pretty good really) was suspect because in this case he wrote "best wishes" or something like that as I recall. It seemed to me that for every other point, the autograph I had matched what she described in the treatment she did in your magazine some years ago on this topic. It was because of her article that I talked to her about it. Just because you've never seen it does not mean it doesnt exist! </p>
<p>I do agree that we learn from our customers - no question about it. I'm looking at thousands of autographs to authenticate - often our customers have become real experts on the one or two that interest them. Just like the stories we have all seen on your site this information becomes invaluable. I learn from other dealers too (from time to time) but mostly just alone with my books...</p> You know with all the goofs t…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-03-29:3524372:Comment:766382011-03-29T22:41:19.920ZLou reveshttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/Louiereeves
You know with all the goofs they have made with the Hestons Lewis's and Stewarts and who knows what else? Do we really want them to tell us anything? The more the collectors on this site help each other out, we dont really need them, they are as they say shooting themselves in the foot! Maybe as more and more of their mistakes come to light they may start saying more.... but I wont hold my breath I want to live!!!
You know with all the goofs they have made with the Hestons Lewis's and Stewarts and who knows what else? Do we really want them to tell us anything? The more the collectors on this site help each other out, we dont really need them, they are as they say shooting themselves in the foot! Maybe as more and more of their mistakes come to light they may start saying more.... but I wont hold my breath I want to live!!! You are quite right. Auction…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2011-03-29:3524372:Comment:767122011-03-29T22:14:41.961ZRobert Zarrillohttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/RobertZarrillo
You are quite right. Auction houses pick and choose what they want to sell - and thats OK really - what bugs me is that when you come to them looking for advice you find you are just wasting your time (usually - I dont want to say this is so in EVERY case - but usually it is so). Most of what I sell on eBay fits in the under $100 category that they dont want to touch and so I am left to trying to authenticate as best as I can with the resources I have. Actually, the references I have…
You are quite right. Auction houses pick and choose what they want to sell - and thats OK really - what bugs me is that when you come to them looking for advice you find you are just wasting your time (usually - I dont want to say this is so in EVERY case - but usually it is so). Most of what I sell on eBay fits in the under $100 category that they dont want to touch and so I am left to trying to authenticate as best as I can with the resources I have. Actually, the references I have available now are considerable but I still consider myself an amateur. How indeed does one step up a notch and be reasonably respected - well for one, refunding immediately anything found suspect which was sold (which I do even without "third party" statements - which are usually unsigned and without credible explanations any way). Sure I've made mistakes but they have been honest ones. I still strive to get better.