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Authenticity is Everything
The much debated Ruth removed from the frame
Decided to start a new thread... Local memorabilia shop confirmed live ink and we removed it from the frame. It was processed in the mail in 1937 based on the reverse side. Took a few more photos before we packaged it up for JSA
the shop owner who’s been doing this for 40 years. “I strongly believe you got lucky as hell.”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Woody2Shoes on
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Steve Z. wrote:
- How often did Ruth authentically sign “Sincerely” without adding the name of the recipient?
- How was this signed… why this envelope? It seems like an “item of opportunity” used during a chance encounter. Yet, the signature appears to be a carefully applied sit down signature with “Sincerely” added. And if it was a response to a mail request, why would he add “Sincerely” without the recipient’s name?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Babe+ruth+sincerely+autograph&s...
Here's quite a few of many more instances of non-specifically personalized "Sincerely"s.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on
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I don't think this answers the question. A number of these results are certainly fakes, and a number of them are cuts that may have had dedications cut away.
Granted, Ruth did generically inscribe "Sincerely" sometimes. But how often? It's a factor to be weighed. So let's weigh all the evidence.
- Signature that has mixed results - some say bad, some say good
- Rubbed up envelope
- Strange feathering
- No personalization
- Sit down neat signature on a strange item
- Postal cancellation that doesn't fit
- Questioned source
You can come to the conclusion that this is the unluckiest authentic autograph in the world, or maybe it's just a fake.
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So in your opinion, it's a forgery?
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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+1
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Woody,
Compare the feathering on this one to the certified ones you linked to. Some have slight feathering, which is normal un a porous surface. But not like this.
And compare the differences in the ERE compared to the certified ones.
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If only it was that easy to deny authenticity based on the amount of feathering, but how much saturation there is present doesn't simply depend on how porous the paper is. The ink, the age, the pressure, the speed of the signature, and environmental storage factors also will affect the amount and characteristics of feathering.
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Here's a PSA authenticated 1938 Ruth signature with the identically wide spaced 'y' that was said here to be non-existent.
PSA authenticated this. Is it genuine? Or a forgery? And why? Anyone?
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Woody, I did not say the wide 'Y' was nonexistent. I said it was unusual, and posted and linked to the exact exemplar that you just posted. This was my post to refresh your memory:
Reply by Steve Cyrkin Community Mgr. on
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Not you. I remember a member mentioning the 'y' as atypical. Might of been in the first thread about the piece rather than this later one.
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similar 'r' formation in the "ere" (indicative of the ca. 1937-1941 range). And the widely spaced 'y', as sometimes appears in his signatures of that time range.
Also, something else. Note that the darkest points of the track match! The pressure exerted along the track is very similar to the same pressure changes as on the OP's example! Coincidence? Is this genuine, or a forgery? One can make that case as the t-crossing isn't only untypically stunted and uncharacteristically bowed, more like an umbrella, but the crossing also is slashed left to right instead of right to left! Is this real?
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That's not the same ERE at all.
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the "r" is in the same style. The type of 1937-1941 "r" that is sometimes written more like an 'r' than a third "e" in the middle of the "ere". The "e"s always vary slightly from auto to auto. If the "ere"s were identical, from auto to auto, 1915 through 1948, that would be one heck of a problem.
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'Sincerely' looks unusual to me. The 'r' is much wider than the 'e's and a bit taller; and the 'y' is unusually wide. I went to PSA Facts and found this one below that's quite similar overall and with both of those characteristics, but I didn't find another one like it.
This is their Ruth section:
https://www.psacard.com/autographfacts/baseball/babe-ruth/42