What do you do when the Third Party Authenticator gets it wrong? - Autograph Live2024-03-29T06:14:50Zhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/what-to-do-when-the-tpa-gets-it-wrong?commentId=3524372%3AComment%3A1305947&feed=yes&xn_auth=noYes, and usually photos like…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2019-01-18:3524372:Comment:13059472019-01-18T23:41:54.187ZJameshttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/JamesScaramucci
<p>Yes, and usually photos like this, with the machine-preprinted and personalized calligraphy, are done with autopenned autographs. In the mid-80s, my mother got one like this with her name preprinted along with an autopenned Ronald Reagan autograph. I’m really surprised that PSA and JSA would make mistakes this glaring.. or maybe I’m not.</p>
<p>Yes, and usually photos like this, with the machine-preprinted and personalized calligraphy, are done with autopenned autographs. In the mid-80s, my mother got one like this with her name preprinted along with an autopenned Ronald Reagan autograph. I’m really surprised that PSA and JSA would make mistakes this glaring.. or maybe I’m not.</p> Cory,
Here's a large photo of…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2019-01-18:3524372:Comment:13059672019-01-18T16:23:21.276ZSteve Cyrkin, Adminhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/SteveCyrkin
<p>Cory,</p>
<p>Here's a large photo of the lot you're referring to:</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/800048246?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/800048246?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>Cory,</p>
<p>Here's a large photo of the lot you're referring to:</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/800048246?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/800048246?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p> it's sad that they can't even…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2019-01-18:3524372:Comment:13057142019-01-18T15:06:46.600ZCory Clarksonhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/CoryClarkson
<p>it's sad that they can't even recognize a pre printed signature. jsa passed this george bush signature (first pic) and then psa/dna pre certified the second pic for an RR auction. notice the signatures match exactly…</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799498611?profile=original" rel="noopener" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799506739?profile=original" rel="noopener" target="_blank"><img class="align-full" src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799506739?profile=RESIZE_710x"></img></a></p>
<p>it's sad that they can't even recognize a pre printed signature. jsa passed this george bush signature (first pic) and then psa/dna pre certified the second pic for an RR auction. notice the signatures match exactly</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799498611?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"></a><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799506739?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799506739?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799508378?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799508378?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799498611?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"></a><br/><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/799498611?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"></a></p> As long as a quick opinion ex…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2018-12-21:3524372:Comment:12940562018-12-21T19:51:24.694Zjust some dudehttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/CR
<p>As long as a quick opinion exists, I never have or never will pay for a COA.</p>
<p>If it passes my eye test thats +1</p>
<p>If it passes a quick opinion thats +1</p>
<p>Beyond that, I stick to what I know, and if anybody questions my stuff, I say “dont buy it, thanks!”</p>
<p>Real is real and real collectors will recognize real without a TPA cert, IMHO. </p>
<p>As long as a quick opinion exists, I never have or never will pay for a COA.</p>
<p>If it passes my eye test thats +1</p>
<p>If it passes a quick opinion thats +1</p>
<p>Beyond that, I stick to what I know, and if anybody questions my stuff, I say “dont buy it, thanks!”</p>
<p>Real is real and real collectors will recognize real without a TPA cert, IMHO. </p> I basically ignore TPAs. Som…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2018-11-19:3524372:Comment:12819642018-11-19T14:33:57.883ZKARLhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/KarlJanesky
<p>I basically ignore TPAs. Sometimes they are correct and other times way off. Another issue, TPAs make a great excuse for "buyers remorse". TPAs docket otherwise great items with those annoying little decals advertising themselves.</p>
<p>I basically ignore TPAs. Sometimes they are correct and other times way off. Another issue, TPAs make a great excuse for "buyers remorse". TPAs docket otherwise great items with those annoying little decals advertising themselves.</p> +1tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2018-11-08:3524372:Comment:12775552018-11-08T23:26:47.391ZSteve Cyrkin, Adminhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/SteveCyrkin
<p>+1</p>
<p>+1</p> Glad to see someone has been…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-07-08:3524372:Comment:10878562017-07-08T03:28:03.656ZJason Charnickhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/JasonCharnick
<p>Glad to see someone has been able to get somewhere with questioning their results in the past. I'm working on blog post that will go in to further detail, but I was always worried about questioning their results that I still have a crisis of conscience when I sold a PSA/DNA slabbed autograph that I felt strongly was fake, and then later upset when they failed a similar item that I felt was real. I didn't see either signed personally but I have many reasons why I came to my opinion, I just…</p>
<p>Glad to see someone has been able to get somewhere with questioning their results in the past. I'm working on blog post that will go in to further detail, but I was always worried about questioning their results that I still have a crisis of conscience when I sold a PSA/DNA slabbed autograph that I felt strongly was fake, and then later upset when they failed a similar item that I felt was real. I didn't see either signed personally but I have many reasons why I came to my opinion, I just never thought they would give me the time of day if I ever wanted to discuss their findings with them.</p> My experience is unlikely to…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-05-04:3524372:Comment:10650372017-05-04T07:06:17.184ZDanehttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/DaneMuramoto
<p>My experience is unlikely to be typical, but I have actually questioned PSA opinions in an email to Joe in the past, and (while he was with PSA) Steve Grad wrote a note on my receipt to the authentication team that the item was good. I no longer think I have the receipt, but it was funny to see, and also an example that people make mistakes.</p>
<p>If you legitimately feel your item is good, and have a reasonable understanding of why it may have failed, you can always approach the TPA about…</p>
<p>My experience is unlikely to be typical, but I have actually questioned PSA opinions in an email to Joe in the past, and (while he was with PSA) Steve Grad wrote a note on my receipt to the authentication team that the item was good. I no longer think I have the receipt, but it was funny to see, and also an example that people make mistakes.</p>
<p>If you legitimately feel your item is good, and have a reasonable understanding of why it may have failed, you can always approach the TPA about your concerns.</p> Your point is well taken Jame…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-02-27:3524372:Comment:10432362017-02-27T14:46:26.153ZChristopherhttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/Christopher845
<p>Your point is well taken James and relates to part of what I was describing earlier as the process for determining the purposes of the TPA in the first place. I think there are two. Foremost is authenticity. Second is the idea of enhancing value. For me personally, PSA is no longer reliable and has never been transparent. I realized a long time ago that the best TPA for music memorabilia, which is all I buy, is Roger Epperson. There are reasons for this. 1) It's the only thing he…</p>
<p>Your point is well taken James and relates to part of what I was describing earlier as the process for determining the purposes of the TPA in the first place. I think there are two. Foremost is authenticity. Second is the idea of enhancing value. For me personally, PSA is no longer reliable and has never been transparent. I realized a long time ago that the best TPA for music memorabilia, which is all I buy, is Roger Epperson. There are reasons for this. 1) It's the only thing he does, so his expertise across the board is greater than the others, 2) You know who is looking at it, 3) I have found Roger to be consistently honest and transparent. I'm not saying Roger is perfect. How could anyone be in such a subject business? But I have far greater trust in Roger than anyone else. He is my first stop for determining authenticity, always. I didn't mention this in my initial post because I didn't want it to come off as a commercial for one TPA over the others. Then I consider the idea of value enhancement. Where I used to believe that a PSA letter makes something more valuable, I no longer am of this opinion (with one possible exception). If selling via RR Auction or Iconic Auction, a letter from Roger is absolutely accepted as validating authenticity, and the items stands on its own merits as well. The only time PSA matters is selling on eBay. So if PSA is unreliable and doesn't really enhance value, other than for selling on eBay, then why go through the stress, as I have done many times, of rolling the dice by submitting to that organization? It's an important question that I've asked myself many times. I think this question first materialized for me when I started talking to collectors with far greater experience than I and realized that a submission to PSA isn't about authenticity. I heard many, many times, "It's real but I don't think PSA will pass it." Anyway, the only answer I can come up with is that as a newer collector I desired mass approval from anyone in a position of significant influence. When I've spent thousands on a piece, I've desired validation of that decision from as many as possible, as officially as possible. I used to think that if I could get a letter from Roger, one from PSA and one from JSA, then I'd be golden. I've come to realize that that was about insecurity, not authenticity or business sense. And I'm over it. </p> Great! I guess getting stuff…tag:live.autographmagazine.com,2017-02-27:3524372:Comment:10431552017-02-27T02:00:44.561ZJames Stonehttps://live.autographmagazine.com/profile/JamesStone
<p>Great! I guess getting stuff PSA/JSA can come in handy once in awhile. Depending on the item and the situation, so i shouldn't say, there is never a circumstance where it comes in handy.</p>
<p>I just feel like a lot of the time it is a wash. The amount you will pay to get it certified is about what you are going to make for having the COA. Not always though. You can also consign with auction houses that are reputable and may do better that way. I buy from a guy who runs a reputable major…</p>
<p>Great! I guess getting stuff PSA/JSA can come in handy once in awhile. Depending on the item and the situation, so i shouldn't say, there is never a circumstance where it comes in handy.</p>
<p>I just feel like a lot of the time it is a wash. The amount you will pay to get it certified is about what you are going to make for having the COA. Not always though. You can also consign with auction houses that are reputable and may do better that way. I buy from a guy who runs a reputable major auction house and because I do so much business with him he only charges me 10% to consign, I'd much rather consign to him than to PSA/JSA certify and list on my own. But it all depends! Good luck! :-)</p>