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Authenticity is Everything
Roger Waters Us and Them Tour Autographs
I may go to one of the Chicago shows at the United Center, or the St Paul show. Any idea where to look for him or what times? Is it better to check the venue or hotel?
Thanks for any help!
Tags: Dark, David, Floyd, Gilmour, Moon, Pink, Roger, Side, Them, Tour, More…
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on
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Excellent post Jason.
I stick to my point about the baseballs. I agree that people should be free to collect what they want and shouldn't be insulted for doing so, but I just wonder if it is reasonable to ask Roger, an English musician, to sign a baseball. Taken to an extreme, he could just as well be asked to sign something like a frying pan or vacuum cleaner.
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Permalink Reply by B. Anderson on
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I do not see the big deal in paying a homeless person to get something signed. They are getting paid for their services. There is no reason they should get paid more than what they do. This is no different than someone who scouts for items to resell on ebay hiring scouters to go scan books to resell. You can even setup software for scouters so they know what to buy or not buy, but not how much the profit margin would be. They should not be compensated any more than they have been. They are providing a service and being paid. They certainly would not know or think to do so on their own.
I do think it is a little disgraceful to have homeless people involved, but I don't think it is any more disgusting than bringing a friend or family member. At least the homeless person is getting paid. If they are getting paid $20 for 2-3 hours of work that is essentially standing around, that doesn't seem too bad to me. If they had something else going on, they would not be there. They are performing work and being paid. Now if a dealer does not pay them, that is another matter entirely, and those people should be beaten to a pulp. But as to one item per person--again, a dealer is a business person, and why would they limit themselves to one item that they can make profit on? That is very poor business sense. They could have just as easily hired students instead of homeless people; who needs the money more? I think the response to homeless people is a little out of proportion.
Now it may create a slightly toxic environment for the artist and others in line if a large number of people clearly do not care and are homeless, as it may make them uncomfortable for a number of reasons, but it really is no different than bringing a friend or family member. Does a "grandma" know or care who he is? Does a random, "normal" friend necessarily know or care? In any event, both bypass the wishes of the artist.
Perhaps the artist should provide a more convenient way for dealers to obtain autographs to resell, rather than having to resort to tactics such as the above. Apparently according to this thread, he has been more generous with them in the past, but clearly he is not now.
Why not charge dealers a flat fee of $50 or $100 an item, that he can sign privately at a later time. That still leaves them opportunity for profit, and they don't have to ruin signing events for others. If you make their profit margin less, then they may behave better and not try to get so many. And one could resort to checking tickets for fans or having someone screen fans by asking questions that only fans would know. If any artist does not want to provide opprotunities for dealers to get what they want and they are as popular and in demand as Waters, then really they should expect what they get. That is simply the reality of it. He really should monetize and regulate it somehow. Maybe just paid VIP meet and greets and do away with free signings. It is nice that he wanted to be so generous, but he is too famous and in demand for that to go smoothly.
I have gotten a lot of autographs in person, and I also have bought a lot. I have never sold and have no interest in doing so. I appreciate the chance to buy something nice. I have gotten many autographs from some people and continue to do so, again, but I like to be a completist, and if I can pick up something that i believe is authentic, that only helps me. Some artists have many albums, and that says nothing of other releases! There is a time and place for dealers, and they do provide a great service. Though personally I wish it was more fans helping fans, as there would not be such high prices. On the other hand, if someone is deceased or rare, the competition for pieces can be stiff, and so prices need to be high. It can be very expensive and time consuming to go see an artist multiple times on the same tour for autographs. I know as I have done so multiple times! The most I have ever asked one artist to give to me in person is 4 items, and that is through paid VIP. Any more would be pushing it. But if I want to go again on the same tour, why not? They don't care and get paid. Some people are fortunate to live in big cities where numerous artists come through all the time. Others like myself live far away and have to go to expense to get any artist.
I am not big on Pink Floyd, but I have been following this thread as it is very entertaining.
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Permalink Reply by Peter C. on
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"Dealer is a business person, and why would they limit themselves to one item that they can make profit on? That is very poor business sense." - because that´s Roger´s rule? For me, autographs are hobby (therefore I´m as satisfied in very same way when I get one as when I get three - and I never ask for more than two or three, it´s not about number of obtained autographs) and actually this "business character of thinking" completely destroys it for me and many others...
Asking kids or grandparents do the same thing as those homeless guys is the same disgusting issue if they are NOT fans. The main "moral" issue which I have is trying to avoid the rule because of profit. I have no issue with fan who goes there with wife/husband or even with kid who KNOWS the artist and who knows why he/she is there (on Poland video there is one guy who even asks Roger for second autograph for his dad - he asked for two different dedications - one for himself, 2nd one for dad and Roger GAVE him 2nd autograph). For me, that´s simply the difference between FAN and dealer. Roger signs for fans - so it doesnt matter whether there are 20 fans or 24 fans.... but it does matter a lot whether there are 20 fans, 20 dealers and 20 homeless guys hired by dealers to avoid "one per person" rule. By their way of acting, you recognize to which group each person belong and Roger has been doing this signing because of FANS!
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Permalink Reply by Mr. Steffman on
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The lines grew increasingly larger from city to city, as people were regularly sharing details of their successes online.
The best thing that can happen for Roger Waters is for everyone to believe it's not going to happen anymore. The lines will shrink down to 10 people and Roger will be back to his usual signing self. If 1 or 2 people post from that day's success online though, the next city will have 50+ people lining up with helpers and it will be deja vu all over again.
I think its a little absurd for people to follow trends online and then complain when too many people are showing up. Even the sports graphing communities were regularly talking about these Waters lines.
Think different, or give it some time.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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Or...getting a baseball star to sign a copy of Dark Side of the Moon.
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As a longtime big celebrity baseball collector, it is B'S to me that it screams dealer. I have been collecting them since the mid 90s. Many times I chose baseballs over other items to be signed as that was a major part of my collection.
I believe dealers use them to get signed cause they know there are collectors like myself who may buy them. Just like how blue sharpie is ebay, that's BS to.... it's what collectors prefer, so that's why dealers use it. I understand at airports a blank baseball is easy to get signed by a celeb you weren't expecting to see.
But as a collector of them, there are lots of us who lo e adding them to our collections.
Here are some of my fa routes from my collection .... - Attachments: No photo uploads here
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IMG_20170124_181158.jpg, 1.5 MB -
IMG_20170304_180534.jpg, 1.6 MB
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IMG_20170304_175344.jpg, 1.6 MB
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Permalink Reply by Michael Kasmar-AutographPros.com on
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Nice collection! All obtained by you IP? Steven Tyler did that one right. Did you see John Fogerty autographed baseball for $150 on his site?
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Thank You.... Some were IP, some were done through private signings, and others I bought back in late 90s early 2000s at auctions. The Tyler one was one I picked up at a auction in the 1996 thru 1998 range. I always thought it looked good, and have shown it to different people on RACC and other FB groups, and have gotten positive feedback on it. I know you are a very long time IP dealer/ collector, who has helped me in the past on RACC giving opinions on a few items I asked for opinions on.... Do you not like the way the Tyler looks?
I did see the John Fogerty baseballs he had on his site. I didn't like something about them though, can't remember what though? Were they on official baseballs? I'm thinking they were on cheaper model baseballs, and possibly signed in black sharpie which I try to avoid unless the price is real good??
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Ahh, I have no idea on the Steven Tyler authenticity. I'd have to take some time to look into it. I just know he's got a much shorter version of his signature. On the Fogerty, you're right. It's a Put Me in Coach custom John Fogerty china ball.
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1.) about RW signing baseball - the issue is that particular video contains rude comments under the video about how RW is arrogant (in that meaning) that he denied to sign baseball when he signed that before (like it would mean some entitlement...). It´s purely about common sense - he is musician, songwriter with long catalog of stuff to get sign and at that time he signed nearly EVERYTHING - it just should have any relation to him (how incredibly shocking isnt it?).... and it´s supposed to be like that. When you go and ask him to sign baseball and he denies to sign that - it´s not HIS arrogance or whatever.... it´s your decision to bring something which he is completely unrelated to. Your mistake, not his. And again - when he used to sign nearly everything like guitar pickguards etc. it was his good will which was abused. BTW I have NEVER seen a fan asking for signing a pickguards in my life.... only dealers. So if you ask him to sign baseball and he says "no" - dont blame him, blame yourself!
2.) that statement about deserving autograph was maybe a bit too strong... but actually my point is this - collectors should try to avoid business side of autographs as much as they can. Bought autograph is never equal to autograph obtained in person because of three reasons. First reason - you can never be 100% sure about authenticity (no matter how good proof video / photos you have or how many authenticators verified it, you werent there)... second one - autograph has no story.... third one - you are actually supporting the dirty side of collecting. You cant say "dealers are spoiling the hobby" at one side.... and buy from them on other side. My opinion is that collectors should try to be as independent of dealers as possible.
3.) I would be able to "tolerate" dealers but they would have to act with common sense and respect - dont see "stars" only as source of their money grabbing machine. RW is incredibly patient guy - so when he stopped to sign, it means that something is really very wrong!
Video of his nearly half hour autograph session from Mexico during The Wall Tour (and you can see that there are actually two sets of videos from two days):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gvnu5slQD8
And then you see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xVBvZup5ZQ
which is incredible lack of any respect,
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhyS4dMULFk
which is nothing else than greedy exploitation of good will... and Paicey is simply sadly way too kind to say "no, it was enough".
I have nothing else to add.
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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I like the idea of collectors trying to avoid the business side of things,with regards to these dealers who are milking it. If collectors want to buy of them ,well it's their money. I wont be supporting them. I know a number of collectors who collect simialar items as myself and we often trade, which makes it more of a hobby.
You can buy through artist stores these days, there's ways to avoid ebay. One of the recent signed items through the store had a warning if you were purchasing the item to profit, they would ban you from buying anything else in the future, so where headed into some interesting times!
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A warning for a signed cd.
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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20170804_200005.jpg, 5.6 MB
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