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Authenticity is Everything
Beatles fully signed REVOLVER - surely not?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Autographtastic on
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Here are a couple of comparisons that I've made. Firstly is Paul McCartney. The "cCa" in McCartney was an area that troubled me a little bit. I did find this example from an authentic set that sold via RR. Although not identical it's an example of when the C's don't loop back across themselves; neither at the top nor in the middle. Okay, the 'a' is a little bit stretched laterally but other than that, they're very similar autographs.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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there are unusual characteristics on every one of the signatures, which is difficult to explain and justify.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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+1 although one explanation seems to jump out.
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Here are some Ringo comparisons. I had concerns about the 'R' in Ringo and the 'St' in Starr. The 'R' in the middle example is very similar to the one found on the Revolver album. There are also similarities between the 't' in each. I'm yet to find an 'S' in Starr quite like the one on the album (will keep looking, time permitting). I'm not usually one to go against consensus but I still feel that this has enough positives to have a good chance of being authentic ....
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These look like hesitant, scratchy simulations by the same hand and I can not wrap my head around the date/ghost thing. In my thinking were this genuine or looking genuine it would attract HUGE attention for what it shows and were it found to actually be genuine it would be of immense value for the "Paul is dead" connection. Would that not be a unique Beatles item? I don't know why this date doesn't seem to raise many red flags for others? It is like a slippery trap laid with suggestion and the "connection" is made in the mind, no? Hard to fight. Is the date/death thing mentioned in the sales text? If not, I think it is left out to create the feeling of "discovery in the potential buyer," which will only induce some to believe it even further. It is to me a trick - common in the area of forgery. But just because a Monet-looking painting has the right canvas weave, makers stamp and the right stretchers doesn't mean it had to be painted by Monet, but to some it seems a shining beacon indicating likely validity. Unfortunately, we live in a world where, in the early 90's, a remarkably talented forger was able to pass off works in the styles of many famous artists simply because no one looked closely and saw what wanted - no attempt had been made regarding period-appropriate materials - they were modern!
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PS - I started typing "date thing" or "date" - it is the confluence of "ghost doodle/"Paul is dead"/date thing". "...It's all too much, for me to take..."
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Thanks for your input everyone. I might be barking up the wrong tree, but I'm going to check these out as well as I can. It will give me nightmares if I pass and it ends up in a major auction as a genuine set down the line.
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Permalink Reply by fab432 on
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I’ve enjoyed reading this discussion and some great points raised. I think it would be best to hold it in your hand and examine it in person. Unfortunately that is hardly ever possible. Generally I find that if there is an unverified story attached to the item then it turns out to be a fake.
Provenance is everything and the history of any signed item is important for the initial purchaser and for every sale after that. I would first focus on the story facts. So it was acquired 25 years ago from a former employee of EMI (Manchester Square) who had her husbands Lp signed by The Beatles. So just enough detail to make it interesting but nearly impossible to verify - very convenient.
I would want to know the name of the EMI employee who got the Lp signed and I would want proof that she actually worked there. That is the price of admission. If you can’t get any of that information then it’s likely just a story. That information is critical especially when there are so many different opinions on whether the signatures are genuine.
To me the signatures look to be in the same hand and I would be in the not genuine camp. Interesting to see if the story checks out!!!
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I agree. Although the quality of the seller/backstory won't ever prove an items authenticity, they can often help rule an autograph out as highly unlikely. In this case, the owner seems like a stand up guy and has been honest and forthcoming in almost everything asked of him. I've checked him out and he's the director of a successful and reputable company here in the UK and doesn't strike me as the type to fabricate things. I am going to meet him and view the album in person in a couple of weeks, and had already decided to push him on the backstory then. Will update the thread when I have more to share ....
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Permalink Reply by Jim Cushman on
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The stories in general aren't important in most cases...most of the stories are bogus anyway!!!...The important thing is...the signatures...are they real?...or not? I'm not crazy about them to be honest...
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Agreed - my point being if the story doesn’t check out, the signatures are most likely bogus as well. No one or very few will check the details of the story to see if it rings true.
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I fear he will say something along the lines "that's what my friend told me 25 years ago and I have no reason to believe he lied to me." Easy cop out if it's a scam but also potentially true. Why would you believe a friend would lie to you? They wouldn't be a friend if you felt they were capable of such behaviour! And this was back when signed albums weren't going for big money like today.
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