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Authenticity opinions received through Facebook groups? Out!

Over the years I have heard many stories of how various Facebook Autograph Groups can be a total circus. Crazy members, fighting, bad opinions, stalking... you name it. In light of this, I have avoided them.

However, recently I broke my own rule and joined the "Out or Safe!?” baseball Facebook group because I had heard stories of what was going on in there. My curiosity was piqued and I wanted to see for myself. The premise of the group is someone posts a photo of an item, and admins weight in with "safe" or "out" in terms of authenticity.

My membership lasted about 12 hours.

Someone had posted a Mantle for an opinion, and one of the admins replied that it was "safe," meaning it was authentic. The Mantle was questionable at best, and highly likely a fake in my opinion. Roller coaster baseline... signed in a spot Mantle would not sign... letter proportion out of whack... stiff rigid signature. I responded to the post that I thought it was an "out." (Photo below)

My comment was quickly deleted and the thread locked.

I sent a note to the moderators asking why. Were differing opinions not allowed?

The response was, "If an admin is very confident on the opinion they will answer and usually turn off comments. That is to stop people from commenting incorrectly."

I sent the photo to my colleagues at JSA, who deemed it a "fail." (JSA even noted it had a machine signed appearance, which I agree.)

I shared this with the admin, "Josh", who couldn't care less. I wrote, "My concern is people are being told bad material is good and then the convo closed for any debate. This is reckless."

In any case, despite the fact that JSA failed the Mantle, their decision was final. And then I was then told I was welcome to leave the group, which I did. I won't be part of something where collectors are routinely given bad advice and no one is allowed to question it.

It was not just this Mantle. I found numerous examples of incorrect calls. Willie Mays wife signed photo, Ted Williams fake, Carl Yastrzemski fake, George Brett fake, Don Drysdake fake... all called "safe" by admins. And this was just in the last few days. How many hundreds more bad calls were there?

Here are just a few examples of bad items being called "safe" by an admin.

Campanella rubber stamp

Obvious Yaz forgery

Willie Mays wife signed

It's not even the fact that mistakes are made. Everyone makes mistakes. It's that they arrogantly shut down discussion and delete differing opinions. And if you question it, you're no longer welcome. This is not about educating collectors, it's about stoking the egos of a few so-called experts who can't handle feedback.

For what it's worth, there are a few admins in this particular group who appear to be knowledgeable, but clearly a few who are total amateur hour.

There are some great Facebook groups with knowledgeable people. RACC is an example. This site is another example with knowledgeable collectors, and debate and discussion is allowed.

However, be wary of the groups that don't tolerate discussion or debate, run by wannabe "experts." The free opinion you are getting may be worth exactly what you paid for it -- ZERO.

(I am considering doing a YouTube video on this topic. If you are in any of these groups and have a screenshot to share, please post it here!)

6 members like this

Comment by CJCollector on July 16, 2021 at 6:57am: It would be awesome, Steve Z., if one of the buyers of a "safe" autograph (forgery) listed it on Ebay, and then I posted it here.

Comment by BallroomDays67 on July 16, 2021 at 4:35pm: How long do you think this group will last? They’ve only been around for four months. As they receive more and more complaints about “safe” items that failed authentication, they’ll have to change the format and/or weed out the Joshes, or just shut it down.

Comment by Steve Zarelli on July 16, 2021 at 6:16pm: It will last as long as there are collectors hankering for free opinions. Free opinions are fine when they come from someone credible. The problem is some collectors don’t know the difference between a credible source and a clueless blowhard. And as long as the blowhard controls the delete button, the collectors will continue to be fooled.

Comment by CJCollector on July 17, 2021 at 7:43am: I'm sure that at least one of those moderators list/sell on Ebay.

That would be interesting.

Comment by Rick Meyer on April 20, 2023 at 9:11pm: I know this thread is old but I joined this group recently. I agree that this is very reckless. They give Safe or Out in seconds on everyone. I read the introductions of the experts on this site. The three I went through all credited Tony Varvel as their main influencer who helped them get experience and what not. Tony was very good at baseball autographs. Just because he was good at them doesnt make anyone else he talked to good at them. I used to graph with him all the time during spring training for a few years and talked to him every couple of days. He lived in Phoenix near me so we would meet at the different spring training facilities. When he went to Beckett and saw things he didn't like he sent them to me to hold for him. Pictures of stuff they authenticated after they all agreed it was bad. He mentioned interacting with a lot of people but most were from this site. Never once did he ever mention any one of these guys. One of the admins now is doing JSA home authentications where JSA comes to his house and authenticates things people send in to him. The last three he did he had a 100% success rate on passes. C'mon now. Over 500 autographs looked at per session in a 6-7 hour period and every one of the pass? In person sloppy signatures mostly and not a single one was failed or deemed unable to authenticate? Yeah right. These guys are no pros. They use and market the different Facebook pages preying on the new and weak collectors. They delete comments and lock threads just like Steve said they did 2 years ago. I've seen them "Safe" more 500 Club items and some didn't have enough pictures to show all the signatures. They act like they want to feel like big shots amongst newbies but would run from rooms where their opinions would be questioned like they would if they came in here.

Comment by Steve Zarelli on April 21, 2023 at 2:21am: Rick pretty much nailed it. It’s okay to make mistakes. No one is perfect. But to act perfect and ban anyone who questions you… petty little tyrants acting like big shots to naive collectors.

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