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Authenticity is Everything
Bob Dylan AUTOPEN Info To Help With Returns / Refunds - Simon & Schuster, Premiere, and Coles
***URGENT UPDATE
Previous update
Some users have uncovered potential autopen use within Bob Dylan's expensive art prints. Please check your prints if you own one and post a picture on this thread if you have any concerns.
here is a link to one of his art prints in question
https://www.castlefineart.com/art/bob-dylan/cactus
*UPDATE - Let this be a warning to ALL publishers and celebrities in the future. We are sick and tired of these autopen releases. Our community has had enough and absolutely will not stand for this practice to continue any longer!!!
I want to point out that Coles Books needs to be commended. They made sure to look out for their customers and refused to ship these out if they came from the same S&S stock, which they did. It was also an easy process to cancel orders beforehand if you wished. Coles. on behalf of everyone, I want to thank you for having integrity and watching out for all of us.
I can NOT say the same about Premiere Collectibles. They refused to honor cancelation requests until it was known these books were in fact autopenned. They advertise themselves claiming they are collectors themselves. This is not true. They are a retailer first and only care about your money. There have been other autopen incidents where they absolutely refused to accept blame, stating items were real when they were clearly deemed autopen by the community. Be careful with future purchases with Premiere Collectibles.
This email came directly from Jonathan Karp at Simon and Schuster. If anyone still wishes to send him a message, here is his email address as well.
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
We apologize for the mistake that was made and are offering a full refund of your purchase. Please keep your copy of The Philosophy of Modern Song at no cost. We hope you will enjoy reading it.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Karp
Here are 51 articles and counting detailing our combined efforts on this forum
New York Post - Screenshot.jpg
New York Times - Screenshot.jpg
Los Angeles Times - Screenshot.jpg
Washington Post - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone - Screenshot.jpg
Rolling Stone pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
Billboard pt2 - Screenshot.jpg
The Daily Beast - Screenshot.jpg
Ultimate Classic Rock - Screenshot.jpg
Poetic Justice - Screenshot.jpg
The Music Universe - Screenshot.jpg
I Heart Radio - Screenshot.jpg
Publishers Lunch - Subscription required
Spiegel - Translated Screenshot.jpg
Far Out Magazine - Screenshot.jpg
American Songwriter - Screenshot.jpg
American Top 40 - Screenshot.jpg
We Got This Covered - Screenshot.jpg
Healthcare Buisness - Screenshot.jpg
Sydney Morning Herald - Screenshot.jpg
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ORIGINAL POST
I am creating this thread as a comprehensive all in 1 link for returns, refunds, chargebacks and claims made regarding the "signed" edition of Bob Dylan - The Philosophy Of Modern Song. Please use this link to email Simon & Schuster, Coles, and Premiere Collectables as 100% proof these were signed using an autopen machine.
I would like to say right off the bat, Coles Books in the UK is handling this professionally and seem to care deeply about their customer base. They have stated that, once they are in hand, If they find evidence of them being autopenned, they will cancel all orders.. Kudos to Coles.. I wish all retailers would follow their lead. If you wish to cancel your order with them immediately instead of waiting, It seems to be an easy process.
This post will be continuously updated with new information over the next few days
Please refer to this article for the time being until more information is added
https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1290-cjbk/news/collectors-quest...
Here is the post I created a few weeks ago with info regarding the Indigo incident.
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/indigo-bob-dylan-po...
So far, there have been a total of 17 confirmed different templates for the autopen machine used for Bob Dylans signature. I am in the process of creating video comparisons for all 17 sets. Please post full page photos of your item as they are delivered to aid in this process
Here are all 17 templates used by Bob Dylan - I am still looking for full page photos for numbers 8,13 and 15 thru 17 but its still best to post whatever you receive
Be aware when checking against your own copy, it has come to light that they are possibly using 1st and last names interchangeably. Bob in #2 matches perfectly with Bob in #13 while Dylan in both are different
14th variation confirmed
15th variation
16th variation - Seems to be almost an exact combination of #11 and #13 with a different vertical line in his "D"
17th variation
Video and photo comparisons created so far
Video of set 1 Dylan1.mp4 - Photo of set 1 Dylan1.JPG
Video of set 2 Dylan2.mp4 - Photo of set 2 Dylan2.JPG
Video of set 3 Dylan3.mp4 - Photo of set 3 Dylan3.JPG
Video of set 4 Dylan4.mp4 - Photo of set 4 Dylan4.JPG
Video of set 5 Dylan5.mp4 - Photo of set 5 Dylan5.JPG
Video of set 6 Dylan6.mp4 - Photo of set 6 Dylan6.JPG
Video of set 7 Dylan7.mp4 - Photo of set 7 Dylan7.JPG
Video of set 9 Dylan9.mp4 - Photo of set 9 Dylan9.JPG
Video of set 10 Dylan10.mp4 - Photo of set 10 Dylan10.JPG
Video of set 11 Dylan11.mp4 - Photo of set 11 Dylan11.JPG
Video of set 12 Dylan12.mp4 - Photo of set 12 Dylan12.JPG
Video of set 14 Dylan14.mp4 - Photo of set 14 Dylan14.JPG
Here are the COAs stating these books were in fact hand-signed
Suzanne Baboneau for UK - Certificate Of Authenticity UK.jpg
Jonathan Karp for USA - Certificate Of Authenticity USA.JPG
Coles listing before it was removed - Coles Website Listing.jpg
Important emails:
Jonathan Karp US - CEO of Simon & Schuster
jonathan.karp@simonandschuster.com
Duane Ward of Premiere Collectables
duane@premierespeakers.com - Others have tried duane@premierecollectables.com
Suzanne Baboneau, Managing Director
suzanne.baboneau@simonandschuster.co.uk
Ian Chapman, UK - CEO
ian.chapman@simonandschuster.co.uk
Bob Dylan's Manager
Jeff Kramer
OK Management
275 South Beverly Drive
Suite 215
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
Phone: 310-535-1647
Bob Dylan's Agent
Brian Greenbaum
Creative Artists Agency
2000 Avenue Of The Stars
Los Angeles, CA 90067
Phone: 424-288-2000
Bob Dylan's Production Agent
Sony/Columbia/CBS Records
550 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
Phone: 212-833-7305
Bob Dylan's Law Firm
Manatt Phelps & Phillips
11355 West Olympic Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90064
Phone: 310-312-4000
Bob Dylan's Twitter
Tweet or privatly message Bob on his verified Twitter account.
https://twitter.com/bobdylan/
Bob Dylan's Facebook
Post or message Bob on his verified Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/bobdylan/
I also found this email associated with Bob Dylans store. Its worth a try
BOBDYLAN@EPICRIGHTS.COM
Media Publications who may be eager to pick up this story - Please email them a link to this post and all related content
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/corp/contactus.html
For story pitches, please send:
News to Jim Milliot and John Maher
Soapbox ideas to Rachel Deahl
Features to features@publishersweekly.com
Related content:
Dolly Parton is also guilty of using multiple autopens in the same fashion with multiple templates over the years but with a slight twist where they manipulate the page as the autopen machine writes her signature. If we are looking to stop all future attempts at autopen usage, she needs to be held accountable just as much as Bob Dylan and S&S. Link to threads below
Here is a great example provided by Eric Keith Longo
Dolly Parton Autopen Example.jpg
http://www.feelnumb.com/2022/03/09/dolly-parton-fake-autograph-song...
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/dolly-parton-signed...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Steven on
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Or is he a smart businessman? By offering refunds, there are now no damages. Apparently, no one will go after him for fraud. So he attempted a crime, got caught, did just enough to avoid any consequences and got out free and clear. And virtually no one outside of this community will think any less of him for it. Sounds pretty brilliant to me...
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Permalink Reply by Lars Olav Karlsen on
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I am not sure if I agree - imagine how much this will cost him? S&S will probably demand refund for lost income that was in the contract, and the galleries will demand a compansation for the millions they now have to refund. Their income from these prints are not in an account waiting to be refunded, they have been used making the galleries go arround financialy.
I bet this will cost Dylan millions to get out of.
The books could easily been fixed by sending out free signed bookplates, and nobody needed to be compensated. But he will obdviously rather pay himself out of this.
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Steve . There are alot of people believe it or not who will be ignorant about what has happened and they will be non the wiser. Castle have put nothing on their website as far as I can see so it’s pretty much business as usual for them Dylan is not necessarily out of the firing line yet. He is allowing / relying on Castle to say which releases are affected. He has given his timelines but it is Castle who are now holding the cheque book and pen and deciding who qualifies for a refund without any visible evidence / proof . All Purchasers must be doggedly persistent in holding Castle to account .
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Absolutely agree. Not only Dylan but Castle. They are both culpable and between them have reduced the value of the whole portfolio I could be generous and say Castles downfall was lack of supervision and audit - but I am not feeling generous right now. I would like to know who suggested auto pen to Bob. If he was ill and worried about catching covid and could not meet his contractual obligations then why didn’t Castle defer the signing. It’s not as if Bob needed the money. Who was driving this?
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How do you know Castle were not in cahoots with Dylan all along from the very beginning of the Dylan /Castle collaboration and are just just trying to b******* everybody now that they've been caught and trying to convince everybody that it's just the last couple of years worth of prints!
I'm sorry but they need a lot more proof than 'oh yes it's OK Castle representatives witnessed all signings' !!
Who knows for sure that Castle haven't been selling faked / autopenned Dylan Prints for the past 10+ Years and just admitting to the 'COVID' years as it's an obvious excuse to use. !
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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where is the proof of these being authentic? The tempest cd in particular was put out for sale by his management. no one witnessed him signing those and they are just as reliable as the Castle Fine Art signatures. this is why I am looking for 100% absolute proof of authentic signatures with photographic evidence of Dylan signing the item.
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explain how an autograph is authenticated exactly if there is no one who actually saw him signing anything ever. How do you think Epperson authenticates signatures? based on PSA authentic examples? I'm looking for 100% certain signatures for everyone to compare to and asking for proof these examples you provided are in fact real and you are unable to do so. you just keep fighting me on this.
here's a reddit post from someone with more information on how the Tempest cds were obtained
https://www.reddit.com/r/bobdylan/comments/gqcow3/my_prized_tempest...
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I'm backtracking through previous posts and noticed so many comments are now tagged in response to people they were not meant for. I want to make a note here - these comments were meant for InkInvestor and not the people who they are currently tagged.
Please do not delete previous posts no matter what reason in order to preserve this threads integrity as much as possible for the sake of our entire community.
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Dylan cannot be trusted at all - he is a fraud - how long has he been de-frauding the public? two years? Twenty Years? - that's what i want to know - Mondo Scripto's look dodgy to me as do others they currently have online, maybe they are real, maybe not... we will never know.
COA's are not worth the ink they are printed on, no matter who the authenticator is. They all make mistakes and can never be 100% sure if they are legit or not.
Castle may as well burn all their Dylan prints they have currently on sale unless they have video proof of him signing every single one !
You're right though Inkinvester unless there is actual indisputable video evidence of Dylan Signing a specidic item everybody must now assume he didn't sign anything - until proven otherwise by actual video footage !
99% of autographs obtained from legitimate sources (and i don;'t mean ebay!) are real - so don't really need proof, just the odd bad apple here and there as Mr Dylan / Miss Parton....among the few other elitist autopenners have shown...
Once a cheat / fraud - always a cheat / fraud !
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InkInvestor It started WAY back when you claimed everything with a crossed y was fake.. you were giving misinformation while implying with 100% certainty you were correct. you have flip flopped on your stance, you have deleted all your previous posts as not to look like a fool, you are the one throwing your voice around like you are the expert. not me, I will continue my research.. When it comes to Dylans signature, I am sticking with 100% known authentic autographs base on real evidence. how many times has it been said now? All authenticators have been proven wrong in the past. Its best to rely on evidence where EVERYONE is certain about being 100% authentic and its amazing how anyone would fight me on this
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Agreed. There may be ones that are 99.9% more than likely real, and that's fine with almost any other signer... but uncovering this fraud and in this very exceptional circumstance of someone who almost never signs, and goes out of their way, and will seemingly make things harder just to not sign, I don't think it's a good idea to compare them unless they're 100% real. 100% real is video proof, which may be next to impossible to find with Dylan, but I can see why it makes sense to only trust that. If that is impossible to find, then maybe go to the 99.9%.
You can't really compare this to any other signers, where a COA from a few reputable sources would be acceptable. I'm not aware of any other signer like Dylan so can't compare him to other signers.
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