Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Markus Brandes on January 10, 2010 at 2:00am

I am sorry that my statement regarding Stephen Koschal turned into a personal discussion which was the opposite of my intention.

Although I am surprised about the police report and don't like what I read I kindly ask both sites autographalert + autographlive that we strictly discuss about "autograph topics" instead of persons. Every personal attack get a personal attack in response. The result is the "autograph-war" which get stronger in the meanwhile as the interest of sharing and educating. I loved the IADA before but now it seems like a battlefield without a magazine, the UACC is still not strict on their dealer programm and claims and we need more autograph articles and reports who share our love for autographs.
autographalert, Autographalerttruth, Ripp-Off and many other forums are new battlefields. This is dangerous !

The International Autograph Society and ISITREAL began to become a battlefield as well which is for example one of the reasons why we closed the Forum and I mentioned to our Society president that he should be careful that our club focus on the autograph topics instead of the personal attacks which very easy increase nowadays.

Steve...thank's for your alert but the same as for the time I had been European Director of the UACC and get alerts for it I like to learn myself and don't like to be involved for any site of the battlefield. I have respect for every knowledge autograph expert who is open to educate a young autograph enthusiast as I am. The autograph collector / expert / authenticator who never did a mistake should through the first stone. We have to learn from each other and work on strict ethics. A autograph dealer group is necessary where each is responsibe for the other with an independent ethic board and maybe insurance. My idea's regarding this would be another topic which I already shared with AFTAL who are in my opinion on the right way but need more strict rules as well.

To answer to this question would be a independent test between the authentication and opinion companies. A independent board between expert's, dealers and collector's will test critics like autograph backround, communication, inventory, dispute reaction.....in a mix of authentic and forgery examples.

Permalink Reply by Markus Brandes on March 15, 2010 at 2:32am

Dear Bob
Thank you very much for your kind comment and I am glad that you had a good experience with Rob Saunders as well who is a high recommended dealer in my opinion.

Even if we are exceptional careful with autograph authentication mistakes happen and therefore we are THANKFUL for knowledge education even if this cause further "learning money". Thank you very much again.

We are very proud that we had been able to educate many collector's worldwide regarding autograph forgeries with the http://www.isitreal.com project and hope the International Autograph Society meeting in June will be a further step to share knowledge as this is most important to survive in the "Don Quixote fight" against autograph forgers.

kind regards
Markus

Markus Brandes Autographs GmbH
Wiesenwinkelstr. 1
CH-8593 Kesswil
Switzerland
Phone: ++41 714602841 Fax: ++41 714602842
http://www.autogramme.com
mailto:brandes@autogramme.com

Join the International Autograph Society meeting 12th June 2010 --> http://autographconvention.com

More than 2000 quality authentic autographs: http://www.autograph-shop.com

FIGHT AGAINST AUTOGRAPH FORGERY ! http://www.isitreal.com

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 30, 2010 at 1:07pm

OK, let's liven this forum up a bit. Here's my list of autograph authenticators that I think are "Not So Reputable" that are commonly seen today:

1) Christopher Morales, of course (American Royal Arts' (ARA) most used authenticator)

2) Don Frangipani

3) Drew Max/AAU (Autograph Authentication Unlimited)

4) E'Lyn Bryan (may only have worked for ARA)

5) All of the above are forensic document examiners. I'd put ever forensic document examiner I've found who regularly works in autographs in the not so reputable category.

6) P.A.A.S. (another ARA authenticator, but authenticates mostly material sold in online auctions like eBay)

7) STAT Authentic: They authenticate heavily for Coach's Corner, like Morales does. However, I have seen some material authenticated by them I thought was genuine.

8) GAI (Global Authentication): I hate to put them on the list but I've lost all confidence in their material. It seems that virtually whatever is submitted comes back genuine. I haven't heard of problems with their NASCAR, but Brandon Mysinger does it and he knows that field. And I heard they may be better since new management came in, but most of their material doesn't cut the mustard.

Here's a prime example of why I don't trust GAI anymore: Ronald and Nancy Reagan autographs that I think are so far off it's pitiful. Both look like they're signed by the same person, too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RONALD-NANCY-REAGAN-Iconic-Ink-Autograph-GAI-1-...

Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on April 2, 2010 at 4:31pm

Steve - Correct me if I'm wrong, but every single authenticator you mention offers only an opinion. To clarify, the customer submits an item electronically or sends the item in, pays a fee, and obtains the authenticator's opinion as to whether an item is legitimate or not. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Mr. Koschal, his use of the term "opinionator" is really more applicable, as what one is paying for is an opinion. By definition, the word "authenticator" means that the decision is definitive and irrefutable.

The client must determine the qualifications of those offering their opinion, but has no recourse, monetarily or otherwise, should it later turn out that the "authenticator" is a total incompetent who obtained his education at the Monroe Technical School for Dental Hygenics. So, what really distinguishes PSA/DNA from, say, Don Frangipani or Christopher Morales? Frankly, it's only their credentials (truthfully presented or not) and their advertising. Neither must be licensed, board-approved, or have a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. So...on the face of it to a layman, a "forensic examiner's" credentials look great, when compared with those of, say, an independent autograph dealer.

So what are we left with? Authenticators back their opinions with nothing. They get paid a fee, issue a certificate, and go out for drinks. Their job is done, no downside. Legally, they're off the hook. Reputable auction houses and dealers (like my fellow PADA members) guarantee their material for the life of the original purchaser. When I take a consignment, I have to authenticate it, and I don't rely on a third party authenticator to examine it and then have a clause in my terms of sale keeping me "off the hook" if the items turns out to be "bad". The risk is all mine. If my consignor moves to Buttnut, Argentina and the piece comes back, it's my problem. So - if I and my fellow PADA members back OUR material with OUR money for LIFE- THAT'S A GUARANTEE OF AUTHENTICITY! I lament the loss of responsible dealers and auctioneers who back up their material with their own money. Maybe I'm on the wrong track...I know I have a couple of spleens lying around here somewhere....

Permalink Reply by Markus Brandes on April 3, 2010 at 12:19am

I really appreciate this point. As everybody knows Bill is is business for many years and for sure is one of the most trustful autograph auction houses. Third Party Authenticatior's don't backup their opinions and are not responsible in any way. In many cases they even authenticate autographs they have never seen before or have reference examples. To get a knowledge opinion regarding a requested autograph is important but this only should help you do make your own decision. There are very few authenticatior who refuse a opinion request if they don't have a clue. Therefore I would recommend to everybody better choosing a serious autograph dealer who is in business for a long time and back up the autographs with their own name and money. Many dealer don't have a reference library and you should ask BEFORE a purchase if they could provide equal references where they could backup the authenticity of a signature. However try to educate yourself first, maybe ask for a second opinion from a specialist collector, dealer or third party and if you feel confident after do the purchase. If you have any small doubts pass. It is always better first thinking of a forgery and get the proof from the opposite instead of believing it could be authentic but maybe it is forgery. I hope I could explain my view in my bad English. Bill's view is excellent !

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 5, 2010 at 8:28am

Speaking of PAAS, a friend just sent me this ridiculously bad Neil Armstrong note just authenticated by them:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120552494318

It was pointed out on CollectSpace.com, http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/002594.html. These folks are so bad, "Authentication" is even misspelled in their name on their COAs. This is the IADA's "official authentication service" BTW.

Permalink Reply by David Catlin on June 7, 2010 at 5:52am

Personally I would stay away from everone except JSA and PSA...in my opinion if you are going to get something authenicated why mess around with anyone other than the best in the business. GAI of old was pretty good but I question there work nowadays. I've seen to many of there authenicated items that I know are bad.

If your item is worth authenication then you should only use the best in my opinion for a couple of reasons. First and formost JSA and PSA have the best reputation in authenication secondly, items authenicated by them will bring a higher premium at sale. Third, most people who are purchasing an item, especially a rare or expensive item will not buy it unless it passes JSA or PSA. When I make a purchase even if it is already authenicated by someone if the seller won't offer a money back guarentee that the item will pass JSA or PSA then it isn't worth purchasing.

Permalink Reply by David Catlin on June 7, 2010 at 6:26am

I would be careful with AACS. They have auctions every week and most of their items are from consignment. In there policies they state that due to JSA, PSA/DNA, and GAI's high error rate they will deal with items that are returned on a case-by-case basis. I returned two items that I purchased and one was probably a year old until I finally sent it in for authenication. They were both bad and they refunded my money when I returned the items and the paper work from JSA. There auctions have great prices but as always buyer beware.

Permalink Reply by john reznikoff on October 7, 2010 at 3:41pm

Hey Robert,
Nice to see you here! I for one can attest to the great customer service and responsiveness at Spink. Top of the heap!

Permalink Reply by Rich on March 16, 2011 at 2:59pm

I can't say I'm a big fan of any of the third party authenticators.  It just seems that too many of them authenticate signatures that you simply can't authenticate because of their simplicity.

 

The worst common offender is GAI.  They will authenticate ANYTHING.  I looked up "Aaron Rodgers GAI" on ebay.  They were ALL bad.  No question.

Permalink Reply by Julie Gullatt on December 3, 2011 at 9:21pm

Will someone give your opinion on this?  I just purchased it for my brother in law as a gift and now I'm a bit concerned (haha why didn't I find this thread before I purchased it?).  I received it from Verified Autographs.  They look reputable but...how do you really know?  I really hope he signed it.  The little mark on the "s" is something on the plastic case or part of a weird reflection.  Do you know if footballs have a sweet spot where the autograph is more valuable?  The picture on Amazon had the football signed in a different spot than the one they sent me.  I am asking them about it.  

Permalink Reply by Rich on December 3, 2011 at 9:34pm

I have mine from the February signing in Chico, CA sitting right above my computer.  Honestly, that looks absolutely right.  My Rodgers signature with a "XLV MVP" and "Heavyweight Champ" inscription.  I'm looking at a solid match - it certainly looks like yours is absolutely authentic.  I see nothing inconsistent with your autograph compared to mine or any of the other examples I've seen from his post-Super Bowl private signings.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• Next ›
• Page