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Questions On Music items from UK dealer

Garry King is well liked by some but I see a big problem with some of the items I see on his site.  I'm not referring to Kenny Baker and other small bits but rather the large $$ music items.

Dealers in the UK might not be aware of current music item that they offer for sale.  In another thread several autographs from Autografica were deemed fake.  The items were Clint Eastwood, Charlton Heston and Harrison Ford.

He might not know there is a problem. 

Tags: Charlton, Clint, Eastwood, Ford, Garry, Harrison, Heath, King, Ledger, Philippe, More…Ryan, heston

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Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on October 31, 2012 at 7:26pm

Garry did say that before all the MJ s##t hit the fan though

Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on October 31, 2012 at 1:18pm

My thoughts Gary are that hopefully an authenticator will authenticate based on known authentic exemplars and not have any idea where the item originated from.  Are there known exemplars of the particular signature in question that Roger is unaware of?  I find it hard to believe but anything is possible.  If I had one of these items and I wanted to sell it I would send it to PSA for an opinion.  Simple as that.

Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on October 31, 2012 at 2:37pm

Guys took my daughter out for halloween and came back to find the Niagra Falls of messages lol.

Ok Fakes are sold by every colour every race every nationality there is no exception . I see it all the time the fake sports stuff that come from Hong Kong , China , Malaysia and Singapoore and maybe in Uk more sport than any other european country but Hollywood fakes are sold by the billions in the Usa , How many of you have been to Las Vegas and were left speechless :-9 .

I myself went into war with huge american companies and was told am not qualified to do this because I dont own an office and I dont leave in the USA WTF ?

Anyway listen guys there is no flags behind fakes just faces and scum.

Now it is hard work reading all this its like the stock market but in texts lol

I think some answers will come out of AFTAL this week ,I Hope am right ?

I also dont think AFTAL are thugs etc , Yes they asked people not to come on here or there etc but they did not say we will break your legs or cut your throat.

Yes they have handled things wrong , Propably people are mad at me for coming on here too , But the problem is from what I know I am the only AFTAL Person for better or worse that has come on here and not to defend aftal as a whole but to ask people try and respect some of the collectors and dealers that are actually clean and deserve not to be trashed as whole.

Its not asking for pitty is asking for respect now , the only people who need to be involved in this debate are the people in question and attached to items in question. I guess poor Gary falls in this but only because he did what 90% of dealers do out there , Buy an autograph like a shop owner who buys something to sell on he is only trying to make a leaving. Garry used to own the convention years ago Autografica and used to bring the guests etc and then sold it to just deal in autographs, Then he decided to try and help the comunity by doing various events etc.

In regards to Authenticators etc , I think that is a s*** storm waiting to happen I have seen countless items authenticated or not and they f***** up , I had it happen yesterday I had 1 dealer call on behalf of a British Iconic boxer asking me for my advise on an item which was 101% authentic but was told was fake, You know why he was told that , Because some one only compared it with what they know is out there, WRONG WRONG WRONG Signatures change very often depending on a situation.

So a authenticator is some one giving an opinion that is the best they can do , It dont mean the person is god and it should be carved in stone as his findings are true.

I myself have to rub off over 100 autographs a year off photos that I get in person because I think who the hell is gonna think this is real , I know it is because I got it but the normal person when he compares this to what he has seen he is gonna think I faked it. So I just rub them off to save the hustle. Others dont I have seen on ebay lines sold there is a pacino on there now which is one straight line been sold for good money , Am sure its genuine even though it looks nothing like his signature , Do you know why I think that ? Because I have met pacino 20 odd times and I know what he is like and I know he would do a line if he feels he wants too.

Now I read that everything that dominic gets will be fake , Guys lets be realistic here this is a little unfair am not defending anyone but he did used to obtain things regularly and he does come out 10 to 15 times a year to do a few events and i know he goes to new york every year for tribecca, I also know that he shops loads of his stock from New York dealers, As the stock he hosts on his side is not from UK.  So lets be realistic and stick to what we know. I think this is fair .

I know people are asking answers and so am I , I would love to come on here and read about other stuff except this debate , I know we all want the same thing so lets see what happens.

On a final note jacko was a good signer he used to sign loads and at the end of his days he was doing 4 each every time you saw him, I will say many times people would get him even 2 times in one day, But he only used to come out his house only 3 days a week the rest of the days people handed things in and were given to alvaro and people would put their initials in the back of the photos so when they come back out signed they would know who they belonged too.

Guys play nice lol

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 31, 2012 at 2:57pm

Jason,

Good points. The reason for my great concern about Dominic Manning, however, is not just that he's the main distributor for Adrian's autographs. It's that he has told customers that he got autographs in person that he hasn't. 

How can you trust anything from someone who would do that?

Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on October 31, 2012 at 3:05pm

Well stated Jason.  Now stay away from your daughter's Halloween candy.

Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 2:42pm

I hope so but Aftal say there Genuine and Roger Epperson says they are Fake

This will not go away, and now it has been stated they are being sold again !

OMG !

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 31, 2012 at 2:36pm

Everyone,

The sad thing here is that this discussion, and the one before it that was deleted, were clearly posted to discredit Autographica and Garry King. Well...at least that's clear to me. If someone was concerned about the MJs and a couple others, why didn't they write about the BehindtheScenes.org.uk or the other dealers who were selling huge volumes of this material?

BWilliams started this discussion and the one before it on Autographica...the first time with a much more scandalous title until I modified it. Yet in both cases, he only posted a few things to spark the fire and then disappeared.

If he was truly interested in the topic, why hasn't he participated since the day he posted the discussion on August 8? He hasn't even been on this site since then.

What happens is that it's easy to incite a lynch mob, and then just step back and laugh as the wrong guy gets hung.

On the positive side, he brought a major problem to the marketplace's attention with the MJs. But a good dealer has been undeservedly greatly harmed.

Permalink Reply by Ren Jones on October 31, 2012 at 3:15pm

Who gets to decide who is deserved of harm and who isn't? Why was the other thread deleted and why was the other title "modified?"  Was it modified by you, Steve?  These are similar to other serious concerns that have been raised on the AFTAL boards here.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 1, 2012 at 7:57am
RenJones,

I'll catch up with your posts and others during the day as I can, and feel free to remind me if I miss something. Since we're all using our real names here or are well known, like DB, would you mind using your real name, too?

Thanks
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 3, 2012 at 12:04am

Ren,

We don't want to harm anyone except members of the forgery industry (producers, sellers, authenticators), who we are going to annihilate. We don't intend to annihilate them...we are going to annihilate them. Every one is a dead man walking.

I modified BWilliams first title regarding Garry King because it was egregiously written to destroy the reputation of someone who I knew had done nothing wrong.

What other serious concerns have been written on the AFTAL boards here?

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 31, 2012 at 3:21pm
This is why I agree with editorial statement but NEVER modifying anyone's post. Maybe, the original thread can be posted with editorial content added along with comments being locked.
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 3, 2012 at 12:10am

Brandon,

Posts are never edited to change the meaning of what someone writes, and posts and comments are rarely edited at all, or deleted. Very rarely. If we edit anything significantly, we almost always add an editor's comment. But if we delete something, we may not.

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