Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ren Jones on October 31, 2012 at 3:00pm

Jackson was dead for 3 years before this particular discussion was formed.  To say that AFTAL dealers and Garry King only bought 2-3 of them is rubbish.  With the internet, eBay and shows all over UK, there is no telling how many they sold.  Roger is right, this all doesn't add up.  I'm sorry.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 31, 2012 at 3:10pm

I was only talking about King, who said he just bought and sold a few. But hundreds of bad MJs in the same style have been sold. 

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Permalink Reply by Ren Jones on October 31, 2012 at 3:28pm

Again, why is the 'mob' okay for some and not others?  In your last post you are almost looking for an excuse to delete this whole thing.  By the by, like a lot of people across the pond, I have been watching this since mid August.

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on October 31, 2012 at 3:47pm

Bur your doing the same thing Ren. Now that some at AFTAL are being exposed and questioned and their motives. Your trying to send the conversation in another direction and promoting the mob mentality yourself. If we follow this logic, the next comment will be, well why is it okay to jump all over Christopher Morales or NE Autographs. Im sure each have either authenticated or sold genuine autographs at some point in their career. The mob isnt okay for some and not for others and the idea of a "mob" doesnt seem to be even appropriate here. The dealers/authenticators/whoever, who sell questionable items regularly tend to get called out, not just here but elsewhere. Their may be exceptions, but not often that ive seen. Because the first thing someone says when someone else tries to question them is, show me the proof. When definitive proof can be shown time and again, then people deserve to be called out and questioned, pure and simple, and if that is referred to as a mob mentality, then so be it.

The formula seems simple, those that sell questionable items on a continual basis are the ones who get commonly questioned and called out for the most part.. And that is how it should be. IT doesnt matter who that company or person is. As far as ive read, this is the first time that Gary King has been called into serious question. If he was selling questionable items regularly and constantly throughout his career, then im sure he would get called out here all the time.

The individuals on this site are very sharp and dont seem to flow with the mob at all. People on here disagree with the "authorities on certain autographs" all the time. What i think any member on here will tell you, is that if they disagree, no one is just going to flow with the group just because. 

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Permalink Reply by Ren Jones on October 31, 2012 at 3:56pm

It's not the first time Carl and many people have pointed that out.  He has been protected and continues to be.  The old term "good old boys club" comes to mind. That is the story here.  Why are some protected and others not?  Garry King offers his "best guess" for a fee and has testified in court cases yet still continues to sell items on the web that aren't right.  This is not acceptable.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on October 31, 2012 at 4:59pm

gazza what did I confirm ? Is it what I said about Alvaro etc , I said that in general not saying it about the jackos in question . I won't have that type of info and never claim to have as only the people there would know this .
All I said is what is known to in persons that did jack in LA outside his house for weeks and weeks , all I wanted to say is that there is a chance there are 100s of this all over the world and instead of jacko might be baracko that's signed em god knows .

But none of us can actually claim and say they 100% fake till it's proven we all just have an opinion same as an authenticators would have .

Guys at the end of the day if not Aftal then who ? Who is gonna protect the flock of sheep .
For me it don't matter as I issue a lifetime guarantee with a little photo of the exact autograph on it so when ever and were ever if in any doubt I can solve a problem .

But this is not the same for 100 other dealers some might be in business for a year or two
And they vanish . Then the public is left with something and no one to
Go too . I think Aftal is needed or something like it .

Also read on here one of the lads said he goes to the shows and he don't care who he buys from ? Well I have to tell you uk and us been to most of the shows and there are loads of dealers selling s*** as they buy it in bulk .

In UK in shows I won't vouch for more than a handful and I mean 1 hand , I am
Only vouching for In Person people that I know they obtain themselves this straight away eliminates 75% of the doubt .

People who buy have to trust some one else and that's were it all goes floppy t*** with no cream . So for me I say it again the dealer is as important as the autograph it's a marriage . Dealer and product is 50% / 50%

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 5:14pm

Jason

my comment were in respect to the many people who handed items into Jacksons security

The items were returned the same day and even overnight

You agreed that this was exactly what happened sometimes

No...... I was not saying that you said this with reference to the Jacksons that have come from Adrian and been doubted on this forum.

I was stating you agreed that some were not 'in person'

But what has come to light today from the forum is that none of the items Garry King was selling from a supplier via Adrian were collected this way

All were colected 'in person' from Jackson whilst he sat in his Limo

Hope tht clarifies it buddy

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on November 1, 2012 at 6:53am

I guess what you guys are missing here on the MJ's is "I saw at least 16 color 11x14 photos in my office that came DIRECTLY from Adrian".  Now why would he be the ONLY person who ever got this style of signature in person, on a send in or any other way?  They all came from him!

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on November 1, 2012 at 10:32am

Roger

You know my thoughts on this, and obviously due to the threats I received after I made my statement in August, im being careful what I write

But let me state for Jason and the forum.

I beleive AFTAL have said these are 100% genuine, due to the Conclusive proof by DVD and photos taken whilst he signed for Adrian

Adrian obviously received the signatures from Jackson in the limo.

He has sold numerous signed items from Jackson to at least 3 contacts in the UK

The items Adrian received from Jackson are diffrent because of the drugs he took at the time of signing

Now that is what they are saying, am I right ?

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 3, 2012 at 11:57am

And Adrian wanted only $250 each for those 11x14 MJ "signed" photos, right?

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 3, 2012 at 1:12am

Jason,

I think most AFTAL dealers are among the best in the world. They would never knowingly sell a forgery, and are careful when they buy. But I feel every collector should get knowledgeable, independent opinions before they buy ANYTHING.

This is especially important for in-person autographs from the last 20 years. Sometimes the autographs are so scribbly that you have to see a thousand to have a clue if they're real.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 3, 2012 at 12:33am

Ren,

Garry King has been attacked by the forgery industry for years. The protection you claim I'm giving him is not protection. It's my endeavor to level the playing field between the honest people and crime fighters and the forgery industry.

Only a few autographs on Garry King's site were called questionable. The Michael Jacksons we've seen definitely are, and they were purchased from dealers who were considered highly regarded until recently. He sold just a couple of them over the years...2 or 3 as I recall, all from Adrian Longden, either directly or through Dominic Manning.

He may have bought some Paul McCartney autographs from Adrian or Dominic Manning of www.Behindthescenes.org.uk, and all of those would definitely be of concern.

The Garry King I know would have already called the customers he sold MJs to and offered them a refund. And he would have called every client who he had sold a questionable McCartney or other autograph to. I haven't talked with Garry in a couple of months, so I don't know how he handled it, but I assume satisfactorily. 

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