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Authenticity is Everything
Questions On Music items from UK dealer
Garry King is well liked by some but I see a big problem with some of the items I see on his site. I'm not referring to Kenny Baker and other small bits but rather the large $$ music items.
Dealers in the UK might not be aware of current music item that they offer for sale. In another thread several autographs from Autografica were deemed fake. The items were Clint Eastwood, Charlton Heston and Harrison Ford.
He might not know there is a problem.
Tags: Charlton, Clint, Eastwood, Ford, Garry, Harrison, Heath, King, Ledger, Philippe, More…
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on
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Jason,
I'm sorry but your analogy doesn't make sense in this case.
My friend was never emailed any images. Adrian called my friend and sent via express post of some sort and yes he was shocked that there were so many and he brought them straight over to me to look at. I told him they were not authentic. He did the same as other dealers in the UK did (my friend is from the UK) and said there is no way Adrian would do that. I have known him for over 15 years ect..... What I said my friend to stop the arguing was that maybe he traded for some of these and got burned. At that time I gave Adrian the benefit of the doubt. Since then though he has come out and said he got these himself, then erased the blog.
Here is the question that should stop any doubters of what I say "why is it we can pick out from any dealers inventory the ones that came from Adrian yet we couldn't tell you were any of the other ones, real or fake came from?". I can spot his like a can a Neil Aspinall set of Beatles.
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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on
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That's very valid Roger. How many times did he sell these "100" signed photos?
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Not 100. Adrian sold hundreds. I think he said 200-300, but I've heard it could have been 500 or more.
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That's what I thought was mentioned earlier
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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on
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The Board must resign, and Elections must be held
If I was a member of this Club I would vote for the Greek Poet Laurate
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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on
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Are you crazy mate I don't have time to deal with all this s*** 7 days a week .
My job is hunting and down icons .
The board members need to be pensioner s people that have all the time in the world for dealing with problems .
I always said I can only give my opinion and my expertise on some things like hard rock , heavy metal . And Hollywood but contemporary not dinosaur graffs .
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Permalink Reply by Paul Fox on
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from my experience in the English courts, (not all courts are the same in britain as each contributing country has various and in different laws i.e marriage age etc) it is hard to see this going into a court room where the judge would welcome a hearing/trial etc on the MJ pieces, from what i have read if i got this right, AFTAL are agreeing that the MJs are genuine 100% and so is Adrian. Both are saying and agreeing that they are 100% genuine.
here the common sense factor:
in a court room you need a defendant and prosecution. these sides must have conflicting stories for the judge to consider whom he believes.
both parties are agreeing the same thing, therefore no case.
for this to go into a court room where a judge would welcome the case, it would have to be AFTAL/Adrian Longden vs Members of AML inc Roger Epperson where both sides disagree on the matter.
it seems like solicitors.barristers are being used to somehow come up with a justifiable way to convince the court of this land and rule they are genuine.heres the good part, if there is no opposing arguement, the judge will clearly only have one side to go on, therefore case dismissed. Ruled genuine by the court of law.
This is what AFTAL are looking for so they can boast they have been proven correct by the court of law and can legally sell them without any backlash and gain in profits.
im no MJ expert, couldnt tell a Michael Jackson from a Diana Ross but i understand the tactics being used.
if you really believe these MJs are fake and can prove it then youre really going to have to fight AFTAL and Adrian in the court room and if a judge rules they genuine, theres nothing you can do about about the sales of these MJs as the decision will stand in british law, EU law and the United Nations. If this happens you will have to fight for a re trial and prove how and why AFTAL are wrong in authenticating the MJs and other pieces.
In my opinion this has truly put a blemish on AFTAL as a whole and i hope the good people within the group, stand alone or form a better group with a better structure, to me AFTAL is dead on its heels and its a shame as i do need a few pieces "authenticating" but how can you trust anything as long as this continues,
anyhow, i did manage to catch abit of this morning (uk daytime tv programme) where fraziers auction and autographs shown a few valuable pieces such as a real charles dickens, king edward 4th etc was really interesting, and im wondering why there was no mention of AFTAL if they really are the best of British in autographs.
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Paul aftal had agreed on the previous statement we have not seen the new one yet ? So we can not say they do infact agree today too, this is why we are waiting here.
Now in regards to another company you mentioned , I will tell you this not a single person selling autographs has a 100% clean record no one I dont care who or what says , And that goes for every single one the industry has to many co^ks and not enough Vi&nas to make it 100%.
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i do not disagree with you jason at all, im just trying to get my head round this.
I must also conclude that , if AFTAL change their statement from the original, then it still does not look good as it shows they are not really sure and its a risk putting trust into the group and people like yourself who have done nothing wrong are affected.
if a murderer gave a statement in court for a trial and then changed it a few months later in the trial, it raises alarm bells and suspicion and guilty is the only outcome..
As far as saying if they agree or not, AFTAL have already publicly given a statement this could also be used as evidence against them as they have clearly stood by their items.i do not see them changing their minds and if they do, it raises some serious credibility issues. i know how the system works and i have seen how relentless people can be on these blogs etc. As a customer it doesnt look good.
good luck anyway jason in your travels.
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Paul and Roger for once am speechless on both posts , I mean you both answered my questions or cleared my thoughts if you wanna accept that.
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DB, Paul:
The reason I gave a lawyers and court scenario is because Jason mentioned it Thursday:
Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on Thursday
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Ok guys I believe there are developments in this case that will be able to kinda close it .
I think around Monday , tuesday , Aftal will make a statement as they are waiting on their lawyers to do so .
It seems Aftal were told by their firm to hold back till some paperwork goes through their hands and a few things cleared up by the courts of justice .
So I guess we just have to wait till next week and here their side of the story ..
Take a break and enjoy your weekends and let's see what's new next week .
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