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Authenticity is Everything
George Harrison real or fake???
A while back I decided to give Mike Frost from P.A.A.S. a chance to authenticate a few of my Beatles autographs. He was significantly cheaper than many of the other authenticators and I had seen his EBay auction a number of times. I decided to send him this mid 70's Harrison autograph which, in my opinion, is pretty cut and dry a genuine autograph. To my disbelief he responded saying that autograph was in fact NOT authentic! Along with this signature I sent him others as well which he deemed as not genuine. I felt terrible knowing that these were real and I was just taken for my money to the tune of $400.00+ dollars. After I received the signatures I did the only thing one could do. I mailed them off to Frank Caiazzo for a true authentication. As expected, the autograph was indeed authentic. I felt a little more vindication when I found out that his authentication services were puled from EBay. BUT! I just ran across another one of his ebay auctions trying to lure unknowing patrons to use his services for Beatles autographs! I was as you can imagine quite peeved. In my opinion, I would stay as far away from a Mike Frost PAAS Beatles authentication as possible. It is my belief that he has no clue what is real and what is not and I would advise to save your money and go with someone more reputable in this business. Take a look at the example for yourself and you be the judge!!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on
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Your opinion is always appreciated as is your participation in this discussion. Thank you for your time and respect in a least having an interest in my opinion and decision.
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Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on
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All of the autographs I sent to PAAS were deemed as NOT authentic. I happened to find a photo on MeanMisterMustard's blog from December of 2011 after I had sent them off to PAAS. This is the Meet the Beatles, along with the other Harrison in question that PAAS said was NOT genuine. Clearly it is an authentic example of an early signed George item. Not only is it authentic, but a beautiful example at that. This was signed in NYC in Feb of 64 on the Beatles first trip to the States. This signature, although rushed as well, is a fine example. Imagine the hysteria and bedlam in the city at that time which would explain a rushed signature. Explain why you said this one is NOT authentic? Here is the image. Everyone can decide for themselves. What do you think Roger?
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Thank you for your great example of an authentic personalized George Harrison autograph and your comments. I do see the "S" in question and I understand all of your comments. The S that is in your 80's example is very rare but even comparing your without question authentic example to the Harrison in question, you will see the size and shape of the figure 8 S to be much different. Your example also help show the question I had about "You should notice a major problem here with the natural flow of the G into the E but not every single autograph is exact so we will move on. I was also uncomfortable with the connection or bridge between the O and E in" and also the (TO) personalization. Your inscription is spot on where as the Harrison in question has that high and close un rounded O in To.I am not claiming to always be right nor bragging in anyway, I just wanted to list my concerns and the process and time involved with a good examination and authentication.With the number of issues I have pointed out with this autograph, I hope some can realize that this one is a judgement call and not a sure thing as originally stated by all.
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Xperttexpert, (Scott)Are you 100% sure that this is the same signed album that you submitted to P.A.A.S.? If so can you please post the P.A.A.S. turndown letter and more importantly post the Frank Caiazzo Letter of Authenticity you have claimed to have received on all of the items that I have turned down.As for the Dana story, that sounds like a great explanation, but I will have to check my e-mails from you on were you obtained this signature because this story and the events sound new to me. Please stop because the cover up is always worst then the crime. Dana told you about the Hot Dog George ate, I suppose it was made of soy in that spring of 1977 or did he now change his order to the Fish Sandwich.
*George Harrison: Living in the Vegetarian World*
By Gail Flug
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SO what your telling me is that because he ordered a hot dog that this signature is not authentic? And you question the prices of the ticket and used that as a factor in claiming that this autograph was not genuine? is that how you determine whether or not an item is real or not???
As for the photo I posted from MeanMisterMustard of the George signed Meet the Beatles, Yes it is the same one in which i sent you and no I do not have your certificate of examination. At the bottom of your COE you state that is is "recorded in your computer." Do you not have the image of this item? I don't believe there are a slew of Meet the Beatles signed solely by Harrison in feb 64 that I could just pull from anywhere.
The winter of 2011 was exceptionally cold here in Corpus Christi and when i realized your COE was not worth the paper it was printed on I used it as kindling to start my fireplace and keep my family warm.
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Very nice response Xperttexpert, I guess you did not read the whole examination process I described in this discussion. I seems that I I can not win with you. How's about thank you for helping me see that I purchased a forgery? How is about I am sorry I think I was wrong about you and P.A.A.S. ?You really do a thorough job and spend a lot of time investigating and researching autographs.I am not here to embarrass you or to have a public lynching, I am simple here to defend my company and back up my examinations and authentication.I think enough has been said .Scott, I am sorry for you dissatisfaction with P.A.A.S. but I thank you for giving us a try and for your time.God bless you.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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When did the Dalai Lama visit Disneyland? Maybe they had leftover Tofudogs.
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funny!
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Scott,I once again am sorry about what has gone on here. I have to defend myself and my company from the negative lies and propaganda that has been spread around for the past year. I think that I have shown you that I am honest and that I do have an idea of what I am doing. That is with a signature that is not my speciality nor one I work with on a daily basis. I do have you e-mails and I know exactly what your agenda here was. You did prove that Frank Caiazzo did approve one of the autographs that I turned down but you know that he did not approve any of the others. You said that you had sold the others after Frank certed them but you lost the copies. I do feel that selling this autographs was wrong after being told not only by myself but by another knowledgeable Beatles expert that these items were not authentic. What did you do with the George Harrison album that both Frank, Alexander and myself told you that it was not authentic. Scott I would like to know what are your feeling now on "Autograph America" a big suppler of Beatles. GEORGE HARRISON and John and Yoko autographs. I have spent 3 days on this and I think it is best that we just stop it all here and you continue to collect and enjoy the autograph hobby, I do suggest that before you purchase or sell any additional autographs that you use the services of Frank or Roger to help you from making any additional mistakes.I have been an autograph authenticator for many years and unfortunately got involved in a negative campaign and wasted a lot of time, money and energy.I lost concentration on what I really do best, and that is autograph authentication and research. I also lost sight of the real problem in the autograph industry and that is the forger and the larger rings of dealer that have been selling this garbage worldwide.I wish that other full time autograph authenticators (besides Roger Epperson) would also join in and try to work together.The big picture is to rid the industry of the forgers that have almost destroyed the business and the hobby of collecting signatures.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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If you have witnessed the signing of the autograph, there is nothing unethical about selling the items, even if they have been turned down.
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Anthony,I agree with you 100%. the discussion had nothing at all to do with a person like yourself that obtains in-person autographs.This statement that I made and you may be not understanding my reference, was based on the case that autographs were puchused from a company that is known to sell nothing but non authentic items.The buyer was warned by not one but a few autograph authenticators and then decided to submit them for authentication were they were physically examined and turned down. The same autographs are then sent off to a second authenticator that also turned them down with a full explanation of the problems. After all that they decided to sell the autographs to an innocent collector, basically knowing that the signatures were not authentic. In a case like this I hope you would agree it would not be the right thing to do.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on
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I understand , but I told the story to show that authenticators are sometimes in the wrong . We as sellers dont have to live and die by them . But for some reason thats what this industry is coming to .
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