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Permalink Reply by Peter Lougheed on January 2, 2013 at 4:24pm

Hi, Scott.

That's a great example of a Foxx check. The fact that Spencer signed with his own name leads one to think that Redd was the only one to sign his checks with his (Foxx') name. Do you agree with that conclusion?

Thanks,

Pete

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on January 3, 2013 at 7:37am

Hi Peter. 

I think this is one more piece of the puzzle.  I am beginning to lean towards the direction that Foxx simplified his signature for whatever reason.  I would be more comfortable if this check was on his personal account rather than "building account."  I am now trying to find out if Spencer signed out of other accounts such as Redd's personal/business account.  I just wish we had a bigger pool of signatures to look at.  There does not seem to be a lot of material on the market right now, at least that I have seen. I am seeing lots of the 1985 era signatures but relatively few earlier ones.  What seems odd to me is that Foxx would not sign at least a few of his own checks after 1985.  I am thinking we should be seeing two distinct signatures on checks in the 1985 period.  Granted there have only been a few examples but all are the same style.  I personally find it hard to believe Foxx would have wanted anyone signing checks in his name.   I just would be more comfortable with more exemplars especially ones that are dated. 

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on January 4, 2013 at 7:11am

I am now sure how I did it but this was actually intended to go on the Redd Foxx Signature Study page which is at http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/redd-foxx-signature-...  

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on January 6, 2013 at 4:34pm

Excellent work Scott!!  This is really interesting, and could prove to be the deciding factor in the debate.  I will try to find some more examples of both this check and other typical '85 Foxx signed checks.  

We will never know, as Foxx had those IRS issues and could have allowed his other friends to sign his checks as well.  Hopefully it's either he signed them or he didn't, otherwise this would be one big mess.

I still feel uncomfortable with 1985 signed checks, but if we could find this same signature on other items besides checks, then I would be convinced otherwise.  It seems that checks are the ONLY items that have this "simplified" signature.  We'll see..hopefully more examples are out there!

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on January 7, 2013 at 7:47am

My problem is with every new piece of the puzzle I can read it both ways.  I do feel that one way or another the two different signature styles have to be explained.  I wish that people from JSA and PSA would chime in on this question.  Both I think have authenticated the "straight-line" version.   There is some evidence of the straight line signature in his paintings.  Although painted signatures might vary some from a regular they are very intriguing.  If we had close up examples to view it would be better.  The link to the site The Official Redd Foxx Site has some paintings. The paintings I believe tend to lean towards the straight-line signature as being a variation.  Of course it would be nice to see closer signatures.   http://www.cmgww.com/stars/foxx/art_22.html

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Permalink Reply by John Melandro on January 7, 2013 at 4:14pm

I have been collecting Foxx signatures for over 20 years with several contracts and checks included.  I am quite surprised by this conversation to be honest with you all.  I do believe that Foxx' signature did get a bit simplified over time, but you must remember that he may have signed dozens of checks in one sitting which simplifies anyone's signature.  I have seen some forgeries over the years, but I truly believe the checks are 100% legit.

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on January 8, 2013 at 6:30am

I agree that I believe that all the checks that bear his signature are likely his. When MikeP. started his Redd Foxx signature study on here (see  http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/redd-foxx-signature-... ) in light of the Charlton Heston secretarial autographs, I think Mike wanted to start a discussion to understand the two versions.  I personally believe anytime someone has questions it is good to have a study of it.   I noted in an earlier post that I believed Foxx may have simplified his signature over the years.  I have recently revised that, and now believe he may have always had a couple variations one for painting another for documents.  By looking at his "signature" in the paintings he did in 1964 you will see many bear a resemblance to the "straight-line" examples on the checks.   This makes me comfortable that the "straight-line" version, on the checks at least, is his signature and not one made up by someone else.  The painting signature may have just been easier to do with a straight line.  I do believe later he adopted this signature perhaps for speed.  It would have been a natural autograph for him having done it on the paintings.  I would like to see more examples of his autograph especially ones that are dated.  I suspect we will see an evolution in his signatures especially on mundane documents such as checks.   To what I have in my own collection, and from online sources I have noticed only two years of checks available (1979 and 1985) if you have seen others I would very much appreciate knowing it.   Although I have collected autographs for nearly 40 years I am by no means an expert, certainly not of Redd Foxx.  Anyone that has examples of his autograph I would love to see. 

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on January 8, 2013 at 1:23pm

My main concern when I noted in the thread, was that it was a drastic change.  Usually, you see athletes/celebrities change gradually over time with little tweaks to the signature but generally the signature is the same.  

With Redd's signature, it changed so dramatically from 1979 to 1985.  Every letter of the signature changed.  

1979 signature ( Scott has a check as well from this date with virtually the same signature):

 

 

1985:

 

 

I understand there is a possibility of the signature becoming simplified in his later days, but it's hard to imagine that it changed like that so quickly.  

However, there is one particular detail that I have found that can be used in the argument that his 1985 is synonymous to the 1979 signed checks.  I am going to edit a few examples and I will post on both this thread and the "Red Foxx Signature Study" thread when I finish cropping some of the examples we had gathered. 

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Permalink Reply by Scott Paul on January 11, 2013 at 8:47am

After looking at the paintings Redd did back in 1964 I am much more comfortable with his later signature.  It appears, to me anyway, to be very similar to the 1985 checks.  I agree that the last name changed drastically from 1979 to 1985.  I still believe this study to be important to understanding that change.   I would still like to know more information and I will continue to seek out material on him. 

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