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Authenticity is Everything
Autographs being reinked and restored
Some time ago I seen a beatles set that had been restored By a professional,they touched up the boys signatures around about 15 percent of the signatures were reworked.
Does anyone have any idea if this is a good idea to have signatures restored and would anyone have any pictures of reworked autographs.
Does it effect the value of the sets or signatures?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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Anthony said he has seen seven please please me albums on an earlier post been put together if that's not enough to make you stop and think. What's going on? This would have to back fire one day.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Halloran on
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I would want to know exact provenance of the signatures on a full Beatles album first before making a purchase, I don't even know if that would be possible. Forgeries were enough to worry about...
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Provenance wasn't important once upon a time. But there was a apple scruff who cut her Sgt pepper album up and gave the signatures to her friends years later got them back and had it restored.
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Permalink Reply by Thorsten Knublauch on
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The Harrison White Album was offered first on Ebay by one of the biggest names in the business in a set with (not alterered) White Albums signed by each of the other Beatles. All had a COA from the biggest name in the business. I think and hope that he had no idea it was a restauration job and that he only authenticated by looking at the scan (and was fooled himself).
I told the seller about the history but he won`t listen and I got trouble.
The set was (allegially) sold (i still believe the seller bought it himself). As far as I remember a couple of times later all individuel albums appeared on Ebay in a resale. From time to time one of the albums appears again (i think the Ringo still / again is listed in Ebay framed) and even the Harrison album appeared in various auction houses... No idea who owns the Harrison right now and if he is aware what he owns.
After all that I still do wonder where the value was? The Harrison paper autograph wasn`t cheap and the restauration of a structured paper into a glossy album must have been quite expensive... After all it is worthless now - in my opinion...
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It's absolutely astounding Thorsten that these albums slip through the cracks. The authenticators are looking at the autographs thinking as they are legitimate. It's definitely made me think twice about buying. I own a white album.
There's a few guys who are top notch in the business may I ask who? It's not a name and shame game but just educational for collectors.
You can see the cut in the Harrison white album because the crease stops. It doesn't run through the sig.
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I will check my files in a couple of hours or tomorrow. I have saved scans of all the other albums. Yes you are right - most of the authenticators only look at scans. This is very dangerous. A friend of mine once bought a fully signed Beatles tourbook where the autographed where photocopied on the vintage pages!!!! He burned several 1000 Euros at the time because the seller used a fake name aswell and did the deal off ebay with out any chances to get the money back (and only found out that the autographs were photocopied much later). This seller offered various of that books on ebay from time to time ...
Normally an authenticator should have the item in his hand... When I am asked by friends and other collectors (so we all do here) I just look at the scan and the history to say "yes" or "no".
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It's a valid point that the authenticators have the item in their hand some may just authenticate online.
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This was the complete set that was offered at the time. I also kept the COA from the seller but I won`t show it here to avoid troubel for the seller because I have no idea if the seller had any responsability or knowledge as the seller normally sells for other people and not just for himself because of his very good name in business.
The memorabilia that is shown with the Harrison album was bought by myself after I bought the card. I had to research the date and place when the cut was signed myself as I only had the rough informations that needed some more research. With my items and my research the signed cut was upgraded to a signed album..
All other albums appear to be authentic.
The Ringo is currently for sale here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Beatles-Ringo-Starr-VINTAGE-Signed-Th...
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How did you see the George had been cut into the white album?
So the other 3 albums haven't been tampered with is that right.
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I saw it because I once owned the card that George signed AND all the memorabilia... I researched for months and at first thougth it was just copied on it or made by autopen with the scan as source - as i had no clue that such restaurations jobs existed.... I was informed by a collectors friend from the States what is possible...
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Well I bet you wished you held onto that George card, I know I wish you had off. This is brutal fraud. You would have died Thorsten. The Ringo has been authenticated by psa but you say its ok as well as the paul and John.
Have you seen my signed white album Thorsten john and paul I think its ok its been in caiazzo hands. But im nervous.
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