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Authenticity is Everything
Has Autograph collecting become less of a hobby and more of a business.
The internet has made it easy to trade. With the birth of the ebay flipper, where is our hobby heading? Is the hobby more of a business for flippers who are inflating our loved autographs. Its not uncommon to see items sold at auctions and resold a week later for double the amount. There also seems to be more and more flippers around.
Whats doing more damage to the prices the flippers or the forgers?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dane on
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Just because I know a lot on topics you incorrectly post about, doesn't make me a know it all. What's your name, Sports? I admittedly have no idea on that one.
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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on
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1980's compared to today? It's a far different world and autograph collecting is just a tiny piece of that evolution. Competition for good authentic material is fierce and that is what drives the price up. I don't think that forgeries do that nor do I think third party authentication services do either. I still see many authentic autographs without documentation sell for a good price and I have also seen good autographs with solid documentation sell for a bargain. If you bought right in the 1980's be thrilled with your good fortune. Hope you bought into Microsoft as well. If you are just now getting into the hobby, do your homework, be patient, buy right, and I have no doubt you will come out good in the long run. Enjoy what you do and always use common sense.
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Permalink Reply by Sports n Stuff on
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Well good thing some people don't need to buy off eBay, etc!
I can tell you for a fact that the people I know that still do this for a job have to get stuff authenticated to get a higher price on eBay! People want that piece of paper that's says Tom dick and Harry says this is authentic! Because the "believe" everything that TDH says is the "truth"!
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Permalink Reply by James McCay on
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It's been more of a business since at least 1998 when McGwire "broke' the single-season home run record and forgeries flooded eBay and never stopped until Operation Bullpen was released and highly publicized by many including myself on my website fighting hobby fraud (sports cards and autographs). That fear instilled in the average autograph collectors was the most needed kick in the butt in the history of the autograph hobby.
Fast forward a little over 10-years, the banks face bankruptcy, millions lose their houses, OUR government bail out the banks and put us all in a recession, etc. and the forgery sellers all came out of the woodwork again. By 2011 eBay was full of forgeries again AND eBay punished every buyer that complained about these AWFUL sellers or left more than three negative/neutral feedbacks a month. That was one of the many moronic decision made by eBay, but the one that damaged our hobby severely to this day. To this day most buyers are still AFRAID to call eBay and complain about the WORST sellers! Plus 99% still won't leave negative feedbacks because they don't know that eBay restructured it's morals in 2013-14 to one again favor buyers (but almost no one knows this) BUT IT'S A FACT!
Anyone who gets ripped off on eBay needs to LEAVE NEGATIVE HONEST FEEDBACK free of hateful words, or saying "eBay is investigating", or "Reported to eBay" (which eBay will remove) because eBay still has a rule where you cannot say those specific things in feedback. You also need to CALL> EBAY and ask to speak to a Trust & Safety Specialist. DO NOT WASTE A MONENT OF YOUR TIME speaking to whomever picks up eBay's phones first because they KNOW NOTHING and can do NOTHING! So just give them the very basics that they require and keep asking for a Trust & Safety Specialist to report FORGERY SELLERS. If eBay gets three complaints from three different buyers for one forgery seller: THEY NOW ONCEV AGAIN WILL BE SUSPENDED FROM EBAY (partially thanks to my non-stop fighting eBay since 2011 when I was PERMANENTLY SUSPENDED for reporting only the WORST SELLERS! To this day I still don't have an eBay account. But I did find a way to open accounts from 2011-2014 from an eBay employee just to fight for ALL OF US!
Another MAJOR concern is Autograph/Sports Card shill bidding on eBay. Since eBay made the ridiculous decision to hide bidder ID's it's almost impossible to tell if anyone is shill bidding anymore. If enough of us complain TO EBAY, maybe they will overturn that decision as well. We need to explain out hobby to Trust & Safety employees in terms that they can understand and they will respond favorably. But you need to keep your cool- a lesson I learned the HARD way.
I think we can all agree at this point that PSA/DNA is completely useless and James Spence is not much better at all. I spent the last 6-months studying as much as I could find about PSA/DNA & Spence because compared to the experts on this site, I didn't know as much as I should. My autograph area of expertise is ON CARD Certified Autograph Inserts (and 99%+ of what I collect personally) from established card companies which have a 99.9%+ authenticity rate since the first one was released in 1990. I admit my mistakes and then learn everything I possibly can so that I NEVER make that mistake again. If only everyone thought like that...
Right now eBay autograph sellers are selling non-Authenticated "signed" sports cards of stars in sports for the same price that you can buy On Card Certified Autograph Inserts from established card companies for! I've never seen such IDIOCY in my life!
This obviously is partially due to the wealthy idiots who'll buy anything, and mostly due to the fact that enough time has passed since Operation Bullpen that a whole new generation of uneducated idiots are buying this worthless crap. So I have to put some responsibility on their shoulders. ANYONE WHO BUYS AN AUTOGRAPH WITHOUT FIRST: asking the seller for provenance (where, when, and how the autograph was signed and for who exactly), if there is a COA/LOA and asking exactly what is stated on it so you can Google all the info looking for FORGERY REMARKS from different sources from the names you obtained- bidding on an autograph is UNTHINKABLE to me! AND IT SHOULD BE TO EVERY AUTOGRAPH COLLECTOR AS WELL.
In the last two months I researched over (25) questionable autographs that has COA's and EVERY SINGLE ONE was from a company that is NO LONGER IN BUSINESS FOR YEARS (making the COA WORTHLESS), and if a clear person's name was on the COA: that person was accused of selling forgeries by many different people over a several year span which MUST NBE ASSUMED A FORGERY unless there are far more posts by collectors stating their autographs from the same source were deemed authentic by trusted experts (which almost never happens).
So if you are too lazy to do these simple things I spent years perfecting, you get what you deserve. I'm sorry to seem cynical, but this is what this hobby will do to anyone fighting fraud in this hobby for free for over 15-years non-stop like I have...
I always willing to help collectors and give my opinion on autographs ONLY FOR FREE and I have never sold any autograph that was not a card company autograph Certified by them printed/stamped right on the card/item itself.
I still say that you should all consider buying On Card (non sticker, or blank autograph inserts like Upper Deck or Fleer embedded white cardboard autographs glued in between two thinner cards) Certified Autograph Inserts from Topps, pre-2010 Upper Deck, pre-2003 Fleer, pre-2002 Donruss and pre-2001 Playoff, even 1994-95 Signature Rookies autographs are 99.9% authentic even though the post-1994 owner & a huge crook: Tim Flatt ran the company into bankruptcy screwing thousands of redemption holders. There's much to learn, but I am the MASTER of On Card Certified autograph Inserts, so ask me if you are interested in anything specifically and I'll tell you if it's 99.9% authentic, and how much to pay. THIS IS THE ONLY SAFE WAY LEFT TO COLLECT AUTYOGRAPHS UNLESS YOU GET THEM YOURSELVES IN-PERSON! But then only you know it's real in you get it in-person. Certified Autograph Inserts are known to be authentic by EVERYONE in the Sports card hobby and those in the autograph hobby who were smart enough to switch to collecting only these autographs like I did in 1999.
For those of you who want autographed memorabilia and not cards. Get on Leaf Trading Cards mailing list. Recentkly Brian Gray Owner has been doing Private Signing s for 8X10's, mini helmets, balls, etc. for far less than you can buy most on eBay and they come with as Leaf credit card like COA with matching holo-foil serial numbers on the item & card. So far- after seeing hundreds of items, they ALL authentic! I even bought a beautiful Cleon Jones B&W 8X10 of him making the last out in the 1969 World Series autographed beautifully with the "1969 WS Champs" inscription for $10.00!!! I couldn't be more satisfied and he has much more expensive items of stars in all sports as well. He's using his connections to get his Leaf Sports Card Certified Autograph Inserts signed to get these other items signed mostly in-person seen by Brian Gray. Brain Gray has a huge ego, but that has nothing to do with selling VERY authentic autographs at a fair price!
Here's their website: http://leaftradingcards.com/home/ Sorry I don't have the link to the page with the mailing list, but it would be good to see what products they have as they are expanding in a big way in 2015 into many sports.
Good luck and best wishes,
James
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Amen brother! As I agree to the idea of buying cards and their authenticity...it's not an item most can display! I know it's not hard to buy a picture(unsigned) and get it framed with a card! And put it up on the wall.
But that is the problem on eBay...people don't complain because it takes forever to deal with the morons and when asked to speak to a supervisor...they say they'll have to call you back. I'm still waiting on a call back from over a year and a half ago! Anyways, you are correct that you gotta just complain. Ideally enough complaints will lead to something having to be done as a seller can only have so much negativity!
But this began with Michael Jordan not McGwire! Well the creation of the Internet as well as McGwire could stand to be the place where this began in the fashion it is today! But Jordan was like God himself...hence leading to him being the most forged person ever!
I agree completely that people just need to make the call and make eBay aware! And yes they have changed their policies...hopefully it becomes even better! But now that they give buyers 180 days to dispute items...it will be interesting to see how this new idea works since it was 60!
Great post!
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