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Babe Ruth Ball Authentic?

Hello Fellow Collectors,

I have a few questions about an autographed Ruth Ball. I have done a lot of research on this ball to date and I am not sure about its authenticity. I have looked at a few exemplars of Ruth and I see some inconsistancies, also, I have tried to do some research on the ball itself to confirm that it is of the period and I have not had much luck.

1) Is the ball of the correct period?

2 ) Does the Ruth look forged?

3) Looks like this ball came out of the Bill Mastro collection about 7 years ago, instant red flag?

4)The current seller is reputable and has proper paperwork.

4) How much does this hurt the value? is this another red flag? "Signature dates from between 1946-1948. In fine condition, apparently cleaned or sanded, with a few light ink remnants of possibly removed signatures...autograph a “7,” the ball a “2,” and the overall grade a “4.5.”"

Please have a look at the pictures and let me know what you think?

Tags: 'Ruth", Babe Ruth

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Randy on August 28, 2013 at 9:51am

Baseball looks to date to the period. Autograph looks authentic. Removal of autographs hurts the value a great deal but it still is a nice Ruth autograph that displays as a single. I would estimate retail value between $4-5,000. If you are looking to keep it in your collection and can get it as a reasonable level, it is a nice item. If you are looking to invest to re-sell later, it might be a tough sale. Who authenticated the autograph? PSA/DNA?

Permalink Reply by Randy on August 28, 2013 at 9:53am

The Mastro collection was sold through Legendary Auctions in December 2010. I cannot find this item in that particular auction. It might have been sold in one of the old Mastronet auctions prior to that time but I did not search all of them.

Permalink Reply by Randy on August 28, 2013 at 10:08am

It sold in Mastronet December 2006 for $9799. However, there was no mention in the description about the signature removals as it was described as a single signed ball. It is not worth any where near $10,000 with the signature removals mentioned but as I said earlier, it is still a nice example. It has likely been sold again since 2006 but no way to easily find it. Hope this info helps.

Permalink Reply by Hank Scorpio on August 28, 2013 at 10:28am

Randy,

Thanks for the opinion and it definately helps. I saw that legendary auctions offering from 2006 and I did not see the removals mentioned either. LOA from PSA DNA does not mention removals. Also the Legendary listing from 2006 mentions PSA and JSA LOAs. The LOA that comes with this is just a PSA from 2013 so what happened to the orignal COAs? Is that a concern?

Here is what I "thought" I saw "off" on the autog,

In the know exemplars that I looked at the "a" in babe looked too rounded.

The second "b" in babe looked off, it looked too closed and "smooshed" together

And the big one for me was where the t is crossed in "Ruth" It does not start from the "u" in Ruth,  the cross is very high up on the t,  and is slanted from the rest of his name where I mostly see it flat cross in his name.

Do you see what I am talking about or am I crazy? haha Thanks

Permalink Reply by Hank Scorpio on August 28, 2013 at 11:05am

Thanks William...what about the lowercase b in Babe? Is that 'normal' tendency for Ruth?

The other thing I forgot to mention was the "Sincerely" on the ball.  ANy issues with that?

So basically you give it 50/50?

Permalink Reply by Randy on August 28, 2013 at 11:24am

Dan,

I have seen authenticated examples with this formation of the "a" although it is not the more normal formation of the letter. I have also seen the closed "b". I certainly don't think you are crazy questioning the autograph but in my opinion it is authentic.

I have handled a half dozen or so single Ruths over the years so it is not like I am an expert who has looked at hundreds of them like the authentication companies but if the price was right, I would buy this one with no worries. I had assumed from the description about the "sanding/removal" that the LOA stated that fact. I assume that is just your opinion from looking at the ball in person.

As to the question about the original LOAs, once PSA/DNA re-certified it, they likely would not return the original LOA as it was not graded when it sold in 2006. It is possible that the JSA LOA was an auction house version and the current seller did not submit it for a full LOA.

These are questions I would ask the current seller if you are concerned. It is barely possible that the ball was submitted to JSA for full authentication and they rejected it but I think that is doubtful. On a single signed Ruth baseball, they would have looked very closely in 2006 before authenticating it.

Based on your questions, you might be more comfortable looking for one that better matches your own opinion of an authentic one but in my opinion, this one is authentic.

However, we all know that this is an educated opinion and the third party authenticators clearly state they are not responsible for mistakes nor do they accept other authenticator's opinions as to authenticity. I'm pretty sure all of them have made mistakes on Ruth baseballs including authenticating forgeries and rejecting authentic ones.

Randy

Permalink Reply by Hank Scorpio on August 28, 2013 at 4:51pm
Randy,

Thank you. The description of the sanding/removal is in the description given by the seller. Which I appreciate as some would not be as candid.

My quandry is this. I have always wanted a Babe Ruth ball and by God I will have one before I die. I will never sell it and I will hold on to it for the rest of my life and pass it down. This item for sale is unique to me. It is single Ruth that will display well (I have pictures of all of the panels and I can't tell where the removals were)but be affordable because of the 2 ball grading, however the signature is strong. I have some concerns with it that I have pointed out which is what is stopping me from going all out on this. If you had to put a % on it if it were real or not what would it be? Have you ever been 100%? I appreciate it.
Permalink Reply by Randy on August 28, 2013 at 5:16pm

Dan,

I would never say 100% unless I saw something signed in front of me. Neither will any of the best authenticators. If I were you, I would try and find out what happened to the 2006 JSA LOA referred to in the original auction or ask seller for a return privilege if it does not pass JSA.

It will cost another $150 for the JSA LOA but I would not want competing opinions from them. Also, if it actually had a full LOA from JSA in 2006, they may be able to find it in their database and for $50 they will supply a new copy. With both PSA/DNA and JSA LOAs, you have what is considered the best 3rd party opinions. MY % would be 90% authentic which is based on my experience but also considering JSA and PSA/DNA both certified it. However, if you are in the $10,000 range for price, you can likely find one on an official American League baseball with a similar autograph but not with the "Sincerely." It really depends on the price. If there have really been autographs removed, the value is much less because it cannot be sold as a single. I understand you have no plans to sell it but you always want any asset to be liquid. Good luck with it. Let us know if you get it.

I really wanted one about 12 years ago and bought a very weak one to start with. I kept upgrading and eventually wound up with a very nice one for $8,000. However, I sold it for a nice profit and have never gotten another really nice one although I have owned a few others in lesser condition. You can search complete auctions in the major auction houses and get a good idea what they go for. There are rarely any bargains but $10,000 will buy a nice presentable autograph on a mid range baseball.

Randy

Permalink Reply by Hank Scorpio on August 28, 2013 at 5:45pm
Randy,

Thanks for the info.
I am just curious if you had a picture you could share of the $8,000 ball. I would love to see it.
Permalink Reply by Randy on August 28, 2013 at 6:15pm

I have a beautiful picture of it but I moved a couple of years ago and it has not turned up. It wound up in a couple of different auction houses over the years and I believe the last time was in a Memory Lane auction but I can't remember the year and although they archive their auctions, there is no search engine for them so it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

It was actually signed with an artist's lead pencil and not a fountain pen so it never faded at all. The ball was a Harridge OAL but with very weak stampings. The autograph was an 8 and the ball a 5, at least that is what the auction houses graded it as well as I remember.

It was only certified by PSA/DNA  when Jimmy Spence was still their authenticator. It was well before they started grading autographs so it was just certed as authentic.  I sold it about 10 years ago at the last Tuff Stuff Show in Richmond, VA.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on August 28, 2013 at 12:10pm

There are a lot of questions and concerns about the Ruth balls sold in those high profile auctions.  Refer to this link, and the other two installments from Hauls of Shame:

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=10406

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