Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Randy on January 23, 2014 at 5:20pm

Very good story but I agree with William. It will sell but obviously they cannot get JSA or PSA/DNA to authenticate it because it is a $50,000 ball with either of their authentication letters and probably $10,000 at best without one in my opinion.

I didn't like it at first look but the more I look at it the more credible the autograph looks. If not authentic, it is a very good forgery in my opinion. Of course, that is what forgers hope to accomplish.

I personally wouldn't touch it even at $5K because I would always wonder why the established 3rd party authenticators passed on it and its down the road value would be very suspect to pass it on as an inheritance.

Of course, I am just assuming they didn't authenticate it. I guess it is barely possible the consignor didn't trust them and just wanted to sell it with their own provenance but I doubt if Grey Flannel would agree to that so I'm pretty sure it has been looked at by both JSA and PSA/DNA.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 27, 2014 at 3:45pm

I emailed Grey Flannel today to find out whether or not this ball had been rejected by JSA or PSA/DNA or both. 

It actually comes with a full LOA from JSA. They have updated their listing to include this information. Hard to believe they failed to include that information on their original listing. 

I'm guessing there will now be a bidding frenzy on this Ruth autograph.

Based on the provenance and the JSA LOA, I think it is very likely to be genuine despite my initial thoughts.

JSA had the ball in hand and as I stated earlier, the more I looked at it the more I liked it but I really assumed since there was no mention of an LOA from either of the respected 3rd party services that it had been rejected and in that case I would not touch it.

Unfortunately, even if I was interested now, it will be way too pricey.

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Permalink Reply by David S on January 27, 2014 at 4:56pm

Wow...curious to see how much it goes up to!  

If they hadn't added the JSA letter...whoever won it would have been in for a nice surprise!

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 27, 2014 at 5:09pm

Yeah, I think it would have gone pretty cheap without a legitimate LOA listed but it will go high now.

It is not an OAL baseball but I would be surprised if it doesn't bring $25K or more. It would likely grade a 9 on the autograph and probably 6 or 7 on the ball.

Wonder if Grey Flannel will send me a commission for nudging them into listing the LOA? Ha. Ha.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on January 27, 2014 at 5:26pm

There are more things that Bother me about this signature than dont bUt with the JSA letter it will bring a healthy price.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 29, 2014 at 6:56am

One bid at $5K in the 5 days before the JSA letter was listed. Currently 8 bids at over $10K in 2 days since it was listed. Right or wrong, JSA adds huge value to the legitimacy of a high dollar autograph.

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Permalink Reply by Erich Jerozal on January 29, 2014 at 7:10am

just looking through some of those auctions.  Wow.  Home run baker jersey is awesome.  Very high end stuff sold there at that auction house. 

I guess JSA does add a lot more value to high end items.   It is a very nice and bold signature. 

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 29, 2014 at 9:43am

I realize that a lot of members of this forum want iron clad proof that a prevously signed autograph is authentic. That is virtually an impossibility in most instances on an item supposedly signed almost 80 years ago.

This one has a story of provenance which seems to be legitimate based on the source and the accompanying newspaper article outlining the details of the game in question.

I know Ruth's autograph pretty well and have studied it for years as a hobby and have owned many of them but I know that Jimmy Spence has much more in depth knowledge, examplars, and experience than I do and I know he has to be convinced it is authentic to issue an LOA for an item that is sure to go for a high dollar figure.

Sorry, but I admit I trust his opinion over mine and if the price were right I would buy this Ruth in an instant with his LOA. But the price will not be right for me. It will be way out of my price range by the time this auction ends.

My only point is that without his LOA or one from PSA/DNA, this ball would likely have sold for a fraction of what it realizes now.

Yes, it is amazing how much faith is placed in someone else's opinion when spending big money, but for at least the sport autograph collectors out there, his opinion is widely accepted as most likely legitimate.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 29, 2014 at 3:18pm

Definition of Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

That is the reason nothing additional is needed. Most collectors obviously trust their opinions and realize that the item can be re-sold by any major auction house if they need to liquidate it with no further assessment being required.

For all I know, they do the specific ink test you refer to when providing an opinion on high dollar items but I doubt if they are going to publish to the public their specific practices used for evaluation.

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