Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David S on January 14, 2014 at 8:19pm

I was thinking along those lines as well.   If someone was forging, they probably wouldn't overlap Stengel's name or even have him share the sweet spot with Gene Woodling.  But ya never know.  I agree it looks like genuine signatures -- I once got burnt on a stamped ball.  luckily it wasn't too much $.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David S on January 16, 2014 at 7:53pm

After doing some research, I'm debating whether or not the Stengel is clubhouse?   See exemplars (authentic & clubhouse) below.  

First some authentic Stengels:

And now some known clubhouse versions:

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David S on January 17, 2014 at 4:23am

Hi William,

Thanks for your feedback.  Not sure if it was clear in the post, but the 2nd and 3rd baseballs down from the top were authenticated (either PSA or JSA):  The 10 signed cuts, and then the next 4 balls were all authenticated....Only the last 3 balls were deemed "clubhouse" by PSA or JSA.  

What i noticed common in the clubhouse signatures were how the "C" was started.  rather than a 1/2 loop before getting into the "C", they start with a straight line.  7 of the 10 PSA cuts and all the authenticated balls shown here start with that little loop.

I just looked at my Ron Keurajian's reference book, and what he shows as a 1965 exemplar is good to see, as the "C" starts with a straight line.

I did acquire this ball yesterday, so I'm really hoping it's an authentic Stengel!  I'm convinced all the other sigs are real, and there's at least 30 of them, which is pretty impressive for a '62 Mets ball....The price I got it for is the price it would sell for if the Stengel was a clubhouse version.   If it's authentic, it may be worth 4-5 times that!   

Again, thanks for your input!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on January 17, 2014 at 4:44am

I have been looking at this one for days.  I would not be surprised at all if the Stengel on the subject ball were deemed a clubhouse signature.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on January 17, 2014 at 2:16pm

William, I agree that slabbed card is very strange

Permalink Reply by Null on January 17, 2014 at 7:19am

I do not study Stengel, but from the photos presented the thing that is bugging me the most is the "S".

Of the 3 known "clubhouse" examples you provided, #2 is obvious hard pen pressure, someone is trying very hard to mimic a sig. #3 is a mess and doesn't even really look close. Now, #1 looks eerily similar to your ball. I wish it wasn't so faded. 

Take a look side by side:

Here is a comparison of the "S". The top 3 are authentic, then look at the bottom three (the middle of which is yours, the side ones are the known clubhouse you provided)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Null on January 17, 2014 at 7:37am

Also, look how little space there is between the "S" and the "t" on all the authentic pieces provided. Now look how big the gap is on the "clubhouse" ones (and yours)... 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David S on January 18, 2014 at 1:45pm

Thanks William, Ryan, Terrier for your time that you spent looking at this & your thorough evaluation...much appreciated, you guys rock.   Do you think it's worth having JSA or PSA/DNA look at it?  And does anyone know what they would charge for a ball like this?  not sure if it's worth the price, especially if deemed a clubhouse.   

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Null on January 18, 2014 at 8:30pm

I'd think its worth asking their opinion. At least a quick opinion... List it on eBay with a ridic asking price (so no one buys it) and request the quick opinion from PSA/DNA. I'd be interested to hear the results. I definitely think it's worth $10 for that. List close high quality pix so they have plenty to go off of.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David S on January 18, 2014 at 8:43pm

Good idea..i should be receiving the ball in hand next week and will list it on ebay.  i will definitely report back with the results!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on January 19, 2014 at 5:29am

good luck David, its a nice ball either way, but if the Stengel is deemed authentic, it would be a real gem.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by David S on January 25, 2014 at 5:21am

Just got the quick opinion back:

Your Request for Item "1962 New York Mets Team Signed Baseball Gil Hodges Casey Stengel Red Ruffing", eBay Lot No. "151217083796", opinion was rendered at "1/24/2014 9:01:22 PM" and the result was:    

Response:     "Likely Genuine"    

Good sign!  I might have JSA look at it today, as they are going to be local.

• ▶ Reply