Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich on October 9, 2012 at 12:33pm

I can't think of many things more pathetic than counterfeiting a GAI hologram.

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 9, 2012 at 1:12pm

Rich based on McKnights hound dog like attributes it would appear there is quite a pack of these "whack a moles".  Remember that carny game?

Aside from purposely hiding or camouflaging the coa so it is unreadable.  In a couple of cases he has also found 2 exact items being sold by a new seller after it was removed by EBAY from a previous seller.

Taken individually they are like gnats and minnows but when added together collectively the loss to unwary buyers will be well into the thousands....

what has me puzzeled is that some of these sales have transpired and postivie comments left.  It would strike me that there must be COAs arriving with them and if so it could give rise to indeed counterfeit produced coas especially since there have been no neutrals or complaints (presuming they are real buyers).  Since the sale is private, the comments won't reveal the exact item that was sold.  In this latter instance it would appear that McKnight has documented a bonafide instance of that occurrence where the real owner of the item and coa also chimed in.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 9, 2012 at 1:18pm

Somehow all this drama went right over my head the past few months.  Has PSA or JSA taken any action?

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 9, 2012 at 1:29pm

JamesM can field that one as I believe he alert JSA but don't recall he rec'd a response.

I'm not sure what either of them would do even with the information provided.  Then again, we never hear directly what PSA does so it is not a surprise...  but if it is more than one now we are going to have an abundance of fake COAs listed as authentic in the databases (w/o pictures) which is going to throw a monkeywrench into the entire cert premise.

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Permalink Reply by Peter leone on October 9, 2012 at 2:04pm

James,

You should be a PI. lol

You are on point with these sellers and how the items are pulled off 1 account then relisted on another. Thats solid work on your part.

I think you and I are on the same point with these fake coa's. I am also sure that all of these companies are aware of this but in the end what are they really doing to warn their customers about this issue? None of these companies are going to comment publicly about this for obvious reasons but at the same time it isn't their fault that their coa's are being copied so what harm is it to inform their customers and potential customers that have heard about this?

In my opinion these TPA companies should address this issue and point out on their websites what the fake coa's look like and what a real one looks like. The perfect place to put that is right where you would type in the cert number in the database. Most people do type in the number to see if the item is in fact certed by them so showing what to look for may help with this.

I know you have seen the Barkley jersey I posted however when JSA was contacted they did not seem to think there was a problem. I feel they just did'nt want to admit there was a problem but Stevie Wonder can see there is a problem.

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on October 10, 2012 at 12:21am

Hello,

Just curious as to what your thoughts are on the matter of the JSA or PSA letters and numbers lining up. On a real cert, will they always be in a straight line? I honestly havent paid any attention to that as far as the COAs that i have from them. I just wonder if it might be a good idea to email the companies or call them and ask them if the numbers and letters will line up in every case with a real cert. I looked at the example posted and noted the different fonts etc. I just wonder if a quick tip off would be if the letter and numbers arent in a strait line. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It might be worth me calling and asking them if no one else has done so yet. 

Thanks

Carl

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 10, 2012 at 12:51am

It's an interesting question.  I don't think alignment alone is going to be the telling factor.  In Peter's case it was a factor as it just so happened that there was another item that had the exact same cert.  Now is it possible JSA issued duplicate cert numbers?  We don't really know.

However, if you look at a short sampling (and by no means would this constitute a definative sampling study) it would lend one to the impression that there is alignment along the top verticle  That in and of itself doesn't rule out several other possibilities.

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Permalink Reply by Peter leone on October 10, 2012 at 7:55am

Carl,

The numbers and letter on the JSA coa DO NOT always line up on the real coa's. The point I was trying to make when showing my case was that there was in fact 2 coa's with the same exact numbers and looked totally diff.

Unlike PSA/DNA, JSA does NOT reprint cert cards for items if a card for some reason was lost so the likelyhood that that was the case was zero. The case I showed was proved to be to be a case of a fake coa and hologram.

The way to tell if a JSA coa is authentic is

1) Feel of the paper, if you have a coa you obtained from JSA yourself and have one that is questionable just feel the paper there is a diff you will be able to tell right away.

2) When you look at the number you will see that it is actually stamped into the card and not printed on top of the card. When you flip the card over to the white side you will see an impression of the number. Some might be faint than others but there will be an impression.

3) If you look at the white side of the cert card look around the edges on the real cards it will be all white on the fake ones you will see the color coming through on the edges.

I can not speak for the fake PSA/DNA coa's yet because I have not had one however PSA/DNA does issue reprint cert cards for itmes in the case that one is lost,. In the case of the reprinted cert cards the font is totally diff on both. The reason for the font change is the originals are print in mass qty by machine and the reprints are done in house so if you see a PSA/DNA card with diff fonts Do Not assume it is fake based soley on that.

I was actually going to buy one of the items that McKnight has pointed out from the group of sellers in order to examine the PSA/DNA cards and stickers but they do not seem to stay up long enough. I did however speak to the agent that I turned my jersey over to in New York about the group of items that is listed by these sellers but to be totally honest with everyone it does not seem to be on their priority list which is puzzling to me.

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 10, 2012 at 8:13am

Many Good Points Peter -

It would appear from Anthony's post that PSA/DNA must have some inclination that something might be going on as they have added the hologram which will make it that much more difficult to counterfeit (except when you see them online are they distinquishable).  I suspect whereever they go, JSA may soon follow (except perhaps the stamp).

What would have been the odds that 2 certs selling a similar item would pop up in the same timeframe?

However, as you have indicated the fundamental 3 steps can't happen until in hand.  By then the seller could be long gone or simply debate the "claim" in a stall tactic.

What I don't grasp however is why Jim Spence wouldn't discuss or provide involvement especially with the one you cited appears to be clearly a counterfeit. 

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on October 10, 2012 at 12:37am

I just got some items back from Psa today . The basic cert cards are totally diffrent . They have a hologram in them now . Also psa marks all items with a special psa pen that shows in some light you can buy . So it would be another way to insure authenticity in items you buy with psa .

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 10, 2012 at 12:42am

anthony.  could you post an example of yours, coa, item, item sticker?  When I received a PSA/DNA LOA - the sticker was on the cert and I needed to remove it and attach it to the item. (the item had it's pictures etc.., taken at a show).

Mike Aring had indicated that the "invisible marker" was actually on the "item sticker" and not the item itself.  That in and of itself would be indicative of preventing counterfeits however one would need the light to ensure "this particuler sticker" is a psa/dna one.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on October 10, 2012 at 1:09am

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