Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tom Schwartz on October 15, 2013 at 5:52am

I've seen plenty of IP Hulk Hogans that look like the one in his right hand. It's really not all that far off from the new signature right below it, albeit much more rushed. I can't really kill them on that one.

As for the one in his left hand, it's a complete mess. Even if PSA somehow thinks there's something good about it, it shouldn't have been authenticated unless it was a witnessed signing.

Keep in mind there have been video clips of celebrities being asked about autographs and they've "authenticated" ones that were fakes (a Gene Simmons clip springs to mind), so take what they say with a grain of salt.

I doubt they put that much thought into it and probably tend to just humor the person approaching them, in order to keep the encounter brief and pleasant. This person's agenda was obviously anti-PSA since he was armed with photocopies of questionable certed items. Not sure Hulk, or any celebrity for that matter, is really looking to stand there and debate the guy about it.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on October 15, 2013 at 6:28am

I don't agree with you, Tom. I think it is bad for PSA. I have no direct knowledge of the workings of their company but doubt they actually spend much time on each item they receive. From a purely business sense, the less time they spend on each item the better it is for their bottom line. I think they usually weed out some very bad items but cert many questionable ones.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Schwartz on October 15, 2013 at 7:10am

I absolutely agree that PSA and JSA have certain problems/practices that are slowly but surely eroding their credibility.

I just don't see the first autograph as being an example of that, although the second one definitely is. My other point was that celebrities aren't necessarily reliable authenticators of even their own signature either.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Schwartz on October 15, 2013 at 7:30am

It would be funny if they sent these pieces of paper into PSA now. Would like to be a fly on the wall for that.

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on October 15, 2013 at 8:16am

That would be funny. I'd like to have that hanging on my wall. I would show my friends and say "here is the forgery they authenticated and here is the real one they authenticated."

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Permalink Reply by Mike Kaminski on October 15, 2013 at 9:58am

My guess is that he was doing some show that PSA was offering authentication services at and they just blindly certed it. 

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on October 15, 2013 at 10:28am

These posts are riddiculous. If you don't value the company's opinion simply don't use them. Where are the posts showing them saving collectors who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars, ensuring to the best of their ability that the item(s) they are purchasing are genuine? I know they have made mistakes, there hasn't been a single person in this hobby who hasn't, but pointing out their mistake on a $10 autograph with absolutely no background information is a cry for attention. Statistically the good that both PSA and JSA do for this hobby far outweighs the bad. If you can do better, start your own company and put yourself out there for continuous scrutiny.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 15, 2013 at 10:48am

I disagree.  Many people hold these companies in very high regard and will buy autographs on the basis of that sticker/cert alone.  When these companies abuse their reputation with poor judgement and laziness in the name of making money as aggressively as possible, they deserve to be called out.  JSA and PSA need to be held to a higher standard if they are to be taken seriously.  When they cert forgery after forgery, that's doing damage to a hobby that they are a major player in.  It is completely just for us to criticize them for sloppy practices.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on October 15, 2013 at 11:05am

I think JSA and PSA are taken very seriously by a lot of big time collectors.  There's a reason they are where they are today.  You are certainly free to criticize, my point was only to keep in mind the other side of the coin which is the massive amount of good they have done for the little bit of bad.

If there is definitive proof that PSA was simply "lazy" here and just didn't make an honest mistake it would be something different.  I find it hard to believe they would risk their reputation to make $5 authenticating a fake Hulk Hogan autograph.  There needs to be a lot more research and proof before accusations of "laziness" and "greed" begin being taken seriously.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 15, 2013 at 11:16am

I'm not making that statement solely based on the case of a couple of Hulk Hogan autographs.  You'll find plenty of other posts on this forum showing lazy authentication by these companies.  By lazy, I don't mean simply blowing a call here and there.  I mean "authenticating" autographs based only on the source, which we are seeing more and more (my favorite example is still the Meg Ryan smeared baseball).

I'm a huge U2 fan, and these companies seem to be batting maybe .500 in that area.  I've watched items go straight from an obvious forger through PSA and come back certed.  I've seen examples so bad that they can't possibly be authenticated based on the signature alone.  PSA certs them anyway.  We've pointed out multiple times the major slew of fake Bono autographs, clearly signed by the same person (NOT Bono) certed by JSA.  These guys are the paid professionals.  I'm just a fan.  What's wrong with this picture?

 

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Permalink Reply by Null on October 15, 2013 at 12:09pm

I've always heard to be careful with PSA/DNA and JSA certed "Entertainment" items.

I don't, and will never send anything off to be certed by these companies (or any). I find it much more satisfying to do the studying on my own, or correspond with fellow members here. I'm not paying $50+ for someone to put a hideous sticker/permanent dye on my piece of history.

In my opinion, this whole mentality of "It's certed, it's real!" is what has ruined this hobby. Over time people are paying more attention to a sticker and piece of paper rather than the signature. It's a joke. I could scribble a Puig autograph that looks NOTHING like the real deal, print off a piece of paper that says "CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY" and it will sell for more than an authentic ball with no papers. Fact is, moron buyers are ruining the hobby, and these companies are very aware of the fact they can profit off of morons greatly. 

It's also a joke for people to think PSA/DNA or JSA know every single autograph of every person ever. The problem is when they don't know, they guess. What they should do is return the money and say "Unable to render opinion", but of course that will never happen. 

I do think PSA/DNA and JSA do a much better job than most of the 3rd party authenticators, but you have to remember these are their "opinion", which is why it's completely worthless, and sometimes wrong. 

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Permalink Reply by Rich on October 15, 2013 at 12:13pm

"It's also a joke for people to think PSA/DNA or JSA know every single autograph of every person ever. The problem is when they don't know, they guess. What they should do is return the money and say "Unable to render opinion", but of course that will never happen."

Exactly.  Selling yourself on a trained expert on every autograph - even if we're talking about a staff as opposed to an individual - is absurd. 

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