Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on May 3, 2013 at 12:35pm

Yes Roger,

Several of the ones i looked at look like rough forgeries to me.

They could always be good, and you would know that more than me,

but i would not touch them. The Joe Perry Band, Joe in particular looks off, as do several of the Greg Ginn's from what i have certed by JSA.

Another thing is that it appears that the same pen appears to be used over and over again throughout each item. And the handwriting looks very similar on several unrelated items. Now the same pen could have just been handed to all these guys (or same type of pen), but that coupled with the prices of most of these is enough to drive me away.

Im guessing you know the dealer Roger and know that he is selling good stuff, or else it just stands out as obviously authentic. Either way im not arguing that they are good if you say they are, as i have trust in you, but i personally would not touch them. Its not a witch hunt, and i have no idea who this seller is, so would have no motive in going after anyone.

I just saw what Rich posted, and my opinion, although obviously wrong in this case, is that what i looked at were not what i am used to seeing and looked "rough" to me. Im glad the dealer is on the up and up and these turned out to be good, but i would not be comfortable with a purchase. I may be loosing out on some great items and fantastic prices, but thats just me.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on May 3, 2013 at 12:59pm

Carl

You have seen a Joe Perry Project signed album before?  Wow, that is amazing.  I saw them and got them in 1980 I believe and this is only the second one I have ever seen.  Which other ones looked like obvious forgeries?  Which items did the handwriting look similar?  I'm not attacking you as you know we are respectful of each other, I would just like to know what made you come to the conclusion that you publicly stated?

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on May 3, 2013 at 8:09am

Here are some comparisons that I know are 100% authentic

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Permalink Reply by Darren Ruskin, III on May 3, 2013 at 11:54pm

You guys are mad. What looks suspicious about any of this guys inventory? I can understand if you started collecting in 2001 they may look a little strange, but if you are giving opinions on authenticity at all you should have knowledge of signing styles that go further back than yesterday. Now this guy who has done nothing but list authentic vintage items and he is getting a lashing without even knowing about it. Go ask any 5 different bands to sign their autographs in the same type of fat black marker and they will all have similarities due to the pen tip - especially the old chisel type used on this guys stuff. You could get 30 different signatures on albums in the same modern fat silver or blue paint pen and they will look somewhat the same because of the medium and tool.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on May 4, 2013 at 9:28am

I admittedly jumped the gun.  However, I raised a concern and asked a question about something that puzzled me.  I don't feel I gave a lashing. I agreed with Roger and apologized for any undue criticism my thread brought about.  Furthermore, I've added a "disclaimer" to the very top of the thread explaining that my original concerns appear to be unfounded.

Thanks for everyone's input.  I'll try to have less of a hairtrigger reaction down the road.

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Permalink Reply by Vestland on May 5, 2013 at 3:15am

Rich, I must say one thing.  Your contribution to this site are great! I do read this site a lot and you have a lot of interesting questions and opinions. Keep`em coming:)

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on May 4, 2013 at 12:59pm

Darren,

you dont have to be an expert on any individual style in order to comment. I am a big fan of Greg Ginn and i have about 14 of his autographs. When i looked over these items i didnt see what i look for in Ginn from my exemplars that i have put together spanning examples from both PSA/JSA, and others. I also looked at the Joe Perry Project and the Joe Perry signature struck me as very odd. And i have about 8 signatures from Joe again mostly certed by JSA. These could be from a time period i am not used to seeing, and to answer your question Roger, no i have never seen another JPP project LP signed. I was judging off of the Joey Perry signatures that i have. But apparently these signatures were from an era i was not familiar with. I also thought the Steve Winwood signatures had a great deal of similarities with another album. All this considered, after my first glance, i judged these to not be good.

And i was corrected and obviously was wrong in this case. And no disrespect taken Roger, i dont mind being wrong. But what i dont like is being told to keep my mouth shut for fear of being wrong, or b/c i dont have as much experience in one area as others. These turned out to be legitimate signatures, and i was wrong. I dont mind admitting it and im not ashamed of it, and it will happen many more times. But more frequently than not, i think i give pretty good opinions on items. But Darren i dont need to possess the knowledge that you do in order to comment on an item. If i think i know the signature enough to comment, than i most certainly will. And if im wrong, i most certainly admit it, as in this case.

I still would not be comfortable purchasing these items, even knowing i was wrong. Its just a personal thing and as i said, i may be at a loss for it. No big deal again. I actually do possess a good bit of knowledge about autographs, and im not giving opinions on whims or on lack of knowledge. If i comment on an item, then i think that i have enough knowledge too. If i am wrong then i go back and study and try and get better. But i dont feel guilty at all for being wrong, and i wont feel guilty next time i am, nor should anyone, so saying i am on crack or mad or anything else is really unwarranted. I was wrong on this account and Roger confirmed that. 

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on May 4, 2013 at 2:14pm

Carl,

I guess it's not what you said but how you said it.  You jumped all over it and told Rich "great find" like he found another forger.  You then said that all the items you looked at from him where poor forgeries.  Being wrong is one thing but making VERY strong statements like that are another.  People on this site do respect your opinion Carl but don't abuse your power.  If you are not sure because of era (and he made it clear in his ad when they were signed) don't make such a confident opinion.  Trust me, I know about this all too well....

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Permalink Reply by Vestland on May 4, 2013 at 5:33am

Just to throw in my 2cents of knowledge........

When I first saw these 2 signed albums I immediately thought it was authentic. More or less spot on signatures from this period. But as pointed out here earlier in this post the fact that they were signed in black marker rather than ballpoint pen which were more common back in those days (83-84) put a kind of "warning light" in my mind.

These sets are probably the first sets I have seen from this early period signed in marker. Because of this I wanted to investigate the seller more, but unfortunately the autographs he has for sale is artists I`m not familiar with, so I really didn`t get any further from there... 

But now as Roger has looked the rest of his inventory and can verify that it`s good stuff I have absolutely no doubt that these U2 albums are authentic.

As the forgers out there are getting better and better, I think It`s a good thing to be sceptical to things in this hobby. But sometimes I think we can get too sceptical..

Here`s  few more early examples (ca 1983) compared to the questioned ones..

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Permalink Reply by Rich on May 4, 2013 at 8:56am

Thanks, Bjarte.  Looking at all of these side by side, it does pretty quickly erase any further concern.

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Permalink Reply by Bruuuce ! on May 5, 2013 at 12:04am

Wow ! What's going on here ? I thought it was a friendly site ! Shall i think twice before giving an opinion ? Honest, I don't want to "abuse my power" (wtf !!!!!!!!!!!!!!) but in my humble and limited knowledge I do think the signatures are real. No doubt at all about the Pretenders, U2 or even Dire Straits. Steve Winwood'signature changes all the time (an forget about the secretarial ones you get in the post...). I'm not familiar enough with the other ones so i won't comment. About the bit about "signed with the same pen" that would be interesting to know where that bloke got all his autographs. Did he buy a collection from somebody who got the signatures in person ? That might explain the same pen then... I always use the same pen (Sharpie Fine Point) when i go "hunting" does that mean that I sign my records myself ? Nope !

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Permalink Reply by Rich on May 5, 2013 at 12:38am

I did feel an uncomfortable lull after I started this thread, and then I started thinking, "Yeah, I don't think I should have posted that . . ."

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