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Authenticity is Everything
The Great American Blues Players Signature Study: Please Add Your Examples
Hello everyone,
I have been wanting to start a thread on this for a long time, and i figure now is as good of a time as any. I collect primary guitar players, and have been selling alot of them off recently, but one thing i continue to collect are the great old blues guitar players. Their is something about the Delta Blues traveling lifestyle that holds alot of wonder for me. These guys laid the foundation of modern music and they inspired many, if not most, of the musicians working today. Most think of Robert Johnson when they think of the great Blues players, but their are so so many others that deserve mention and tons of respect.
As anyone who has ever studied early blues signatures knows, they are incredibly difficult to authenticate or even find at times. You have guys like Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, BB King just to name a few whose signature examples can readily be found. But aside from a few key players, autographs from these guys are very hard to find. And when you find one, often you really have to trust your source or do some serious research. And even then you often cant find examples.
So i thought this would be a good thread that may help future collectors out with examples we think are authentic. Please post examples of blues signatures that you like and want to share. Guys like Buddy Guy and BB King probably dont need to be posted in mass b/c their signatures are so abundant, but dont hesitate if you would like to post some.
I hope this can turn into a good database, and really the only one of its kind on the net. I have many examples from many different sources and if someone doesnt want their picture posted just leave a comment and i will delete it.
I am going to start this off with Albert King. You can find Albert King signatures from time to time, and of the 3 King's, he is the next most available after BB. Alberts signatures are typically sloppy, shaky, and can take on a few forms. Albert often write "Love You" before his signature, and his typical signature takes the form of A. King. I have also seen variations including "A.B. King". King often would not write out King fully and the formation would flow from the K almost into the g. I have seen my fair share of forgeries with Albert, but his signature can be authenticated in most instances in my opinion. Here are some examples with sources:
This is one album i used to own and recently sold on RR Auction. It came from "Mr. Bebop", of Larrys Books and Autographs. He specializes in blues signatures and this was a great example of king.
These next images came from RR Auction
The Ace of Spades album is a nice example, and the rarer A.B. King signature. The middle cut display is more atypical. This one in my eyes can go either way but is probably good. The A looks typical but the King is a little more unusual. But he did do this from time to time in his shorter signature versions. The bottom example is a typical King signature.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nate on
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Hi Carl,
Freddie King is one of my all time favourites. I waited ages for one to come up (as you've rightly said he is very rare) and then suddenly I've managed to bag 2!
My first I wouldn't normally have purchased because it is quite hard to make out, but it is on his best 45, in my opnion, the fabulous 'have you ever loved a woman' with the equally great 'you've got to love her with a feeling', and I got it for a very good price:
My second is almost the complete opposite. It's a huge clear example (the biggest I've seen) and written very flamboyantly (probably because of its size). It has a great heritage as it came from the collection of one of the UK's biggest R&B music promoters (promoting the likes of the Jackson 5, James Brown, Marvin Gaye, BB King etc etc etc) and writer of many articles for Blues & Soul and NME (including interviewing Freddie King).
The picture doesn't really do this one justice:
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Next i thought i would include a jazz man, but also influenced the world of blues guitar. Alonzo Johnson, better known as Lonnie Johnson, was one of the all time greats and helped to pioneer the role of guitar in modern music. Johnson had a unique guitar sound and had great success at a time when most black jazz musicians were not achieving mainstream success.
Johnson autographs are very rare. Johnson died old for the time and lived until 1970 i believe. But back then, asking for autographs, wasnt a popular practice, but Lonnie did sign. Very few items pop up from him, and i would put his rarity about at the same level as Freddie King. If you search ebay daily, you probably can find one, but count on it taking a couple of years. I am lucky enough to own one example which i got from ebay. Realistically legit examples fall between 150 for cuts, to around 400 dollars for more desirable pieces, and sometimes even more.
Here are some examples:
Here is an example i own, and is a signed LP cover in pencil.
Here is an example from a private collection of Johnsons signature
Here is a Lonnie autograph pulled from google
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Hi William, and thanks for the kind words.
No i do not have a Charlie Christian. I have never even seen one. And i have looked quite a bit. Have you ever seen one by any chance? I know their are some around, but i guarantee you that the owners probably keep them under their pillows at night, and wont be separated from them, lol.
When you get into the rarest of the rare, my experience is that these items typically are coveted away in private collections from typically the wealthier collectors. That definetly doesnt always hold true, and some will eventually hit market and sell for decent prices to average buyers. But in my experience, the super rare ones almost never even really come to market. They are almost just sold between friends and fellow uber collectors who have an "in" with someone who has such an item and who will sell to them privately and never let it hit the public market. For whatever reason, i have purchased quite a few really rare pieces that were from collectors in Switzerland, and i got the impression that the sellers werent exactly hurting for cash if you know what i mean.
I know that their are Christian examples out their that are legit, just like Elmore James, Leadbelly, and i would go as far as to say even Robert Johnson. They just never reach public eyes. But boy would i love to see them, although i could never afford them.
I do however have several examples of Leadbelly that i will be posting, and im sure they sold for top dollar.
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Permalink Reply by Sidney Fields on
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Carl:
FABULOUS material! As a blues fan, I love it.
One little point...I think the last living direct connection to Robert Johnson was Honeyboy Edwards who died two years ago.
Please keep posting.
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Sidney,
Thanks for that correction. You are indeed correct. I had it in my brain that RJL was the last living link, but neglected to think about when Honeyboy died. I am getting ready to post some Honeyboy examples, as he was a true character and a heck of a guy too. Very friendly to his fans.
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Here is another example from Lonnie Johnson from RR auction:, an extremely bold signature to boot
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Thanks for the comments so far guys. Its great to hear from fellow blues and jazz fans. I know im posting chiefly guitarists right now b/c they are my main interest, but i will be posting some non guitar guys too. This is such a large project that it will take me probably several weeks of daily posting. But with your help, hopefully we can make a great thread, and this will be the only one of its kind on the net, and should be a great comparison study for future buyers. B/c as the collectors of these guys know, authenticating them is a beast.
In this post i am going to concentrate on an assortment of guys, who i dont really have alot of examples on, but the examples i do have i feel are authentic. I wish i had more on these guys, but their autographs are very uncommon and i just dont have many.
The first, is an autograph i posted in a previous thread, by a great blues guitarist and singer, although underrated, Mr. James Lewis Carter Ford. Or better known as T-Model Ford. Ford actually just died this summer, and no one really knows how old he was. Thats something you dont hear very much, but Ford didnt know his exact date of birth, but he puts himself in the range of the mid 80s to early 90s. These guys must have done something right, b/c alot of the old bluesmen lived quite long lives, and im sure they abused their bodies just as much as any modern rock star.
This example came from the same collector who was good friends with Robert Jr. Lockwood. Through that connection, and his profession, he got to meet many of the blues legends that were still alive in the 90s to present time frame. Ford was illiterate and although his signature is better than just a dash or an X, it still doesnt resemble T Model Ford, lol. Ford signatures are very rare, but the main reason for that in my opinion is b/c he wasnt a home name in the pop culture, and he didnt sign much b/c he was illiterate. As far as value, i would put it at around 40 dollars. A rare autograph to be sure, just not that valuable in the standard market.
The next blues guy, who I am a big fan of, is Earl Silas Johnson IV, better known as Earl King. Although King isnt cited today as a major influence to many players, he was a giant, and deserved to be the 4th "King" in my opinion. Right next to Albert, B.B., and Freddie. Players may not know much about him today, but more than likely their guitar heroes were huge fans of this man. Players such as SRV, Hendrix, and many others have covered his songs and studied his style. Among blues collectors he is a major influence and he helped to define the southern blues hybrid sound.
King autographs are very rare in my experience. I have only ever seen 2, and one is actually for auction on ebay right now, the other i own. King lived into the early 2000's, so his signatures are out their, they just rarely come up for auction. The one on ebay is on a poster and is priced to start at 100 dollars. This is around the fair value in my opinion, i would place a value of between 75 and 100 dollars. I paid around 75 for mine, and feel it was worth it, b/c he is a rare signature.
This is the piece that i own and it came from Larry at Mr. Bebop. His collection is enormous.
This is the poster on ebay and is a nice example in my opinion. King signatures are out their, but it takes alot of persistence to find one. I searched for around 2 years before i found mine. Just keep at it, and one will come available.
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One more T Model Ford for the list. I absolutely love this one because of the poster it is on. The poster artist did an excellent job with this I think, harping back to the old pre-war adverts and, more recently, to the great R. Crumb illustrations, a fantastic job Mr. Poster Artist! Added to this is that it is signed by everyone who appeared in this Fat Possum caravan show, including Hasil Adkins, Robert Cage and Elmo Williams:
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Continuing along the line of artists who need to be shown, but few examples seem to exist of, i thought we could look at an autograph i have been after forever, John Adam Estes. Better known to the blue world as Sleepy John Estes. Estes story in my eyes was a tragedy. Estes was a great guitar player, and received alot of attention for it, but it was his vocals that seemed to drive fans crazy. They were very sorrowful, and sounded more like an old weathered bluesman than a young fresh Estes. Estes toured for a while, and fans loved his style, but success ultimately never came his way, largely b/c people thought he was DEAD.
According to the story i have read, Big Bill Broonzy made the mistake of telling people that Estes was no longer living, even though Estes was alive and in his prime, although not touring. That coupled with the fact that his voice sounded so aged made fans not even bother to try and see if the man was still touring, b/c they assumed he was dead and gone. Crazy Huh??
Well eventually, someone, maybe his first record label, although i cant remember exactly, tracked him down to record new material and found him living in poverty and no money to his name. Not only that but he was completely blind by that time. Estes went blind early in his childhood in one eye, but it wasnt later in his life that he went totally blind. Despite being blind, however, Estes started touring again, and toured up until his death. A really interesting guy and story. And to still be able to play guitar and sing when totally blind is quite an accomplishment. Guys like Estes, Doc Watson, Jeff Healey and many others just blow my mind.
Well enough with story telling. Estes autographs are near non existent. In many years of searching , i have seen only one example, and that example just appeared within the last month on ebay. Now typically i would have destroyed all other buyers to have it, but when i saw what it was, i just couldnt see spending over 50 dollars on it (ended up going for about the 50 mark). I expected to see an autograph or maybe an attempt at an autograph, but instead, their was only a crude set of 2 marks. Similar to the graph that Big Joe Williams would often give, except worse. The only thing that gave it any credibility was that another signer, who i am not familiar with signed as well, and also made a notation on the album pointing to this "mark", and stating that Sleepy John had signed it and that was his "mark". As by that time Estes had gone blind, and to my knowledge, he couldnt write well to begin with. Although i have always wanted an Estes graph, i just couldnt see this as worth having for much money. Now a Sleepy John autograph from before he went totally blind, thats a different story and would love to see one, but for now, this is the only even possible example i have seen. I cant guarantee authenticity, but it is at least something to compare too.
Next is another blues player who is responsible for one of the best blues standards of all time, but is not well known outside of the blues world. Fenton Robinson, perhaps one of the best Chicago Blues guitarists helped to spread the chicago blues sound around the USA, and is a very underrated player in my opinion. Robinson died in the late 90s, so examples are out their, but i have only seen 2 that even have a shot. They are incredibly rare and trying to find a legit example to compare too is a daunting task. I still have not been able to do it, but instead can only guess. I would put a value on his signature of between 50 to 100 dollars. The rarity level far exceeds that price, but that seems to be a realistic range for him.
This is the best shot i think i have had at finding a legit example. This piece has sold 2 different times at least to my knowledge. Once was on collectors frenzy, and someone stole it, for like 25 bucks. Just crazy. Then it later was resold on ebay. I actually bid on this item but lost out at the end. I was very bummed, but what can you do. I think this is the most likely example of a real Fenton signature that i have come across.
I apologize for the bad angle of this picture. It is from my collection and i need to go back through it and re take pictures with a digital camera, as this one was scanned in. I purchased this item off ebay and the seller had no idea if it was real. She didnt deal in autographs really and she made no bones about it. I watched this item forever, and i know one member on this site did as well. I finally bought it for like 40 dollars, but have no idea if its authentic. It doesnt share many traits with the first Fenton example above, so im guessing i bought a forgery, but who knows. No big deal i guess, but until i find more examples to compare with, ill keep it on a shelf.
Now new blues collectors please pay attention. I am going to post a bad forgery of a Fenton Robinson signature. How do i know? Well b/c i have never seen a legit autograph come from guaranteedautographs. This is something blues collectors have to be wary of. Companies that specialize in nothing but forgeries, the ones who regularly sell beatles sgt pepper items fully signed for under 200 dollars, also pump out a steady supply of blues players like James Cotton, John Lee Hooker, Albert King, BB King, etc. So you really have to watch out. When you see an item you like, google image the name of the signer followed by autographed as a 1st precaution. If your item came from one of these sites, you typically can find similar pics, or the exact pics sourcing back to the bogus site. Be careful guys, and i will talk more about this later.
But this in my opinion is a forgery, no doubt about it. source is guaranteed autographs.
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Well, a bit of pleasant news. Fenton Robinson is one rare signature, but they do ocassionally pop up. Fairly recently, one was sold in a group lot on RR Auction, and was on a Living Blues Magazine. This was later resold (very recently) by yet again, the greatest blues collector out there, Mr. Bebop. I think this is probably authentic, and probably the best example to go by for an authentic fenton signature. The above LP that i purchased off ebay was really just a gambale. The seller didnt even know if it was authentic. But i took a chance. It really didnt match up to the "someone lone me a dime" LP that well at all, and i was holding that one as probably authentic. Do i still think the Dime LP is authentic, i just dont know. But it doesnt compare that well to this new example that i found. The good news i suppose for me, is that this new example does have some positive traits with the LP i purchased. But even better news, is that at long last maybe we can get some definitive examples of Fentons signatures so collectors will have a database to study when trying to get an authentic auto from him.
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