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Jason had started a thread; http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/what-is-exact-proof-...
and like all good threads there are discussions witin discussions but this sub-discussion came up on a dealer Milton Lubin & http://www.substancecollectables.com/boxing_hall_of_fame___1
It appears that in 2003 although the Lubans were properly served but they failed to answer the complaint.
Jason went on further in one comment;
This link is the link with the guy and the actual photo we have on files one doctored that has the guy mentioned above.
http://bertorelli.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/rocky%c2%b4s-boxing-glov...
On 17 May 2012 the guys who were building a file heard the following news : He received a letter from the lawyers of Prince Marketing and Super Star Greetings today. Telling him to remove all items and images of Joe Frazier, Micky Ward, Roy Jones Jr, Hulk Hogan, Chuck Zito, Vinnie Paz and the Super Star Greetings logo. This guy is total scum and is getting what he deserves.
The most famous website in the world for tackling fakes did a special on him here you can read it for your selfs. click the link.
I wont pu the photos yet I will leave them as aces in our hands till we have too but I believe there is enough here to make your minds up if this is true or not.
http://www.isitreal.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=7...
Recently I received some photos that appear to have been photoshopped and were alleged to be used by Milton Lubin to promote his product offerings. The one on the left is what has been alledged as the real one while the one on the right has been alledged as fake ones that were used as "proof" pictures.
One recent excerpt from Jason;
Ps yes DB strange here seems no one in America cares about what s going on in their door step and on of this forums own. (sometimes Jason - it takes some extra cycles ;-)
Since I have no dogs in this fight and Milton Lubin is an AML member here as was pointed out in the intial thread above, it would be pertinent to have some feedback on these claims and allegations.
Thanks to "AC" we continually get "SOLID" evidence of this scumbag Milton. If Milton put as much effort into running a legit business as he does putting together scams he might be considered a good businessman, however, it is proven over an over that he is considered to be a good "scammer".
Hey MILTON (scumbag), we all know you read these posts. Why don't you ever defend yourself here???
BELOW IS A "COPY & PASTE" OF 2 PARAGRAPHS FOUND ON THE SITE OF SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES. IF YOU NOTICE IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH WHERE IT IS STATING THE COMPANIES "AUTHENTICATION IN AUCTIONS" POLICY AND THAT:
"We do not claim to have a photo of the celebrity signing the item as some sort of proof. That is a well known trick that should be avoided "
Here is the actual complete statement directly from this companies website and the above statement is underlined:
"Authentication in Auctions: Substance Collectables does not fool around when it comes to authenticating our product. We do not print out COA's on the computer and we do not offer expired auction letters (or copies of them) from PSA or JSA. This is against both companies policies and is unethical. Please do not be fooled by those that provide copies of these letters as authentication. They are all over eBay. Yes, maybe a representative looked at a small portion of the lot and deemed the whole thing OK to auction. That is the best case scenario and you end up with an autograph that has absolutely NO authentication whatsoever. Not advocating that any of these are or are not authentic, and you may get a good autograph that may pass JSA or PSA/DNA, but the facts are that the authentication is all for not. Substance Collectables provides REAL authentication on our products. We pay a lot of money to go the extra mile to authenticate so that the item you are getting is as authentic as any in the hobby. Once in a great while a lower end signature may not be cost-effective to spend the $ to authenticate. In those rare cases we just do our very best to be sure and claim the piece to be 100% authentic. We do not claim to have a photo of the celebrity signing the item as some sort of proof. That is a well known trick that should be avoided if you are not familiar with the seller. We are always happy to answer any questions about the authenticity of the signatures that we take great pride in bringing to you. If you buy from us, you can be sure the authenticity will NEVER be in question".
THEN TAKEN FROM ANOTHER PART OF THIS COMPANIES WEBSITE IS THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH REFERRED TO AS "AUTHENTICITY" WHERE IT STATES:
"Most of our autographs also come with either a photograph from the auctual signing,"
HERE IS THE ACTUAL COMPLETE STATEMENT FROM THIS COMPANY:
"Authenticity: All of our Autographs come with a certificate of Authenticity that Guarantees that the autograph is genuine. This is a Lifetime Guarantee. Most of our autographs also come with either a photograph from the auctual signing, security hologram, or a video from the signing, We try to attend all the signings if possible as you can see by our supplied photo's".
Also, in the first paragraph noted at the top in bold, taken from the site of Substance it talks about "auction house letters" and how they do not provide "expired" letters. Friends, all the expiration on a auction house letter means is that if that letter is NOT presented by that date then you do not get $10 off authentication fees...but....even further, Substance talks about how these auction house letters are not a good thing and you could get a bad item and that SUBSTANCE OFFERS REAL AUTHENTICATION????? with inference of staying clear of "auction house" letters.....below is an item taken from this companies website today. Note: the last line says the COA is an "auction house" letter from PSA/DNA:
"Muhammad Ali Autographed Color 8 x 10 photo of title of greatest sportsman: A beautiful 8 x 10 color photo of Former World Heavyweight Boxing Champion Muhammad Ali. Named the greatest sports star by Australia''s No. 1 sporting magazine Alpha.
Ali's record in professional boxing''s most competitive era has seen him get the nod ahead of cricket legend Sir Donald Bradman. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods and Diego Maradona rounded out the top five, reports The Herald Sun."Ali was an unbelievably skilful, clever boxer who was involved in some of the biggest fights of the 20th century." A beautiful 8 x 10 color photo of Former World Heavyweight Boxing Champion Muhammad Ali. Named the greatest sports star by Australia''s No. 1 sporting magazine Alpha.
Authentication: Pre- PSA/DNA certified, Auction house".
THIS CAN BE FOUND AT THIS LINK FOR PROOF:
http://substancecollectables.com/inc/sdetail/10291/10396
AND THIS ITEM ALSO HAS AN AUCTION HOUSE LETTER:
"Muhammad Ali Signed 8 x 10 Vintage Photo of Cassius Clay: Offered here is a 1970 vintage photo of Muhammad Ali as Cassius Clay. The photo shows a young and Ali with a Cassius Clay T-Shirt on, VERY RARE PHOTO!!! Ali signed this photo in blue sharpie marker, in beautiful penmanship, easily a "9-10" in quality. He autographed this in the early June 7th 1987. The photograph is in VG/EX condition, with not crease, nor sratch!
Authentication: Pre-PSA-DNA Certification and Auction House Letter"
This can be found at this link for proof:
WHAT IS A BUYER TO BELIEVE?????????
Also, the "auction house" letter that SUBSTANCE shows with the item is a "sticker". I have never seen a sticker that is referred to as an auction house letter.
BEWARE............BEWARE............BEWARE.....
I really cant believe that Milton Luban isnt in jail yet. You would think the FBI would have paid attention by now, or that the representatives of these stars would sue him. He blatantly rips off photos and attaches them to forgeries. But this thread is undoubtedly hurting him where it means the most, and saving collectors tons of money. Great job Xout, and all the other guys who keep this thread going.
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