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Authenticity is Everything
What is up with Substance Collectables - Milton Luban
Jason had started a thread; http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/what-is-exact-proof-...
and like all good threads there are discussions witin discussions but this sub-discussion came up on a dealer Milton Lubin & http://www.substancecollectables.com/boxing_hall_of_fame___1
It appears that in 2003 although the Lubans were properly served but they failed to answer the complaint.
Jason went on further in one comment;
This link is the link with the guy and the actual photo we have on files one doctored that has the guy mentioned above.
http://bertorelli.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/rocky%c2%b4s-boxing-glov...
On 17 May 2012 the guys who were building a file heard the following news : He received a letter from the lawyers of Prince Marketing and Super Star Greetings today. Telling him to remove all items and images of Joe Frazier, Micky Ward, Roy Jones Jr, Hulk Hogan, Chuck Zito, Vinnie Paz and the Super Star Greetings logo. This guy is total scum and is getting what he deserves.
The most famous website in the world for tackling fakes did a special on him here you can read it for your selfs. click the link.
I wont pu the photos yet I will leave them as aces in our hands till we have too but I believe there is enough here to make your minds up if this is true or not.
http://www.isitreal.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=7...
Recently I received some photos that appear to have been photoshopped and were alleged to be used by Milton Lubin to promote his product offerings. The one on the left is what has been alledged as the real one while the one on the right has been alledged as fake ones that were used as "proof" pictures.
One recent excerpt from Jason;
Ps yes DB strange here seems no one in America cares about what s going on in their door step and on of this forums own. (sometimes Jason - it takes some extra cycles ;-)
Since I have no dogs in this fight and Milton Lubin is an AML member here as was pointed out in the intial thread above, it would be pertinent to have some feedback on these claims and allegations.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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Wow. Very impressive research.
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Permalink Reply by AC on
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Scan 1 Steiners web site Muhammad Ali signed boxing glove image
Scan 2 Steiners web site image used by senior authenticator for
Substance Collectables
Scan 3 Steiners web site Muhammad Ali signed boxing glove image
Scan 4 Steiners web site image used by senior authenticator for
Substance Collectables
Scan 5 MichaelTyson.com web site banner image
Scan 6 MichaelTyson.com web site banner image used by senior
authenticator for Substance Collectables
Scan 7 Celebrity Fight Night web site montage of Muhammad Ali
Scan 8 Celebrity Fight Night web site montage of Muhammad Ali used by
senior authenticator for Substance Collectables -
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Here is a interesting read how this guy is not in Jail has me beat
http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/789103123/m/4031060544
Link to thread on senior authenticator's Testosterone level problem.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/208536/help-me-find-pedro-i-sold-him-my-9...
Link to thread in which the senior authenticator started and stated on January 3, 2003 he
sold a PJ 9500 LC to a buyer named Pedro in Portugal. The senior authenticator claimed he
didn't have the buyer's address and had not shipped the item. .The item was sold on
September 25, 2002 and had been paid by bank transfer. On January 4th, the buyer stated he
had emailed Luban "dozens of times". Senior authenticator claimed in thread on
January 5th he would "email the buyer direct" and fill him in on all the
information. On January 13th, another member called the senior authenticator and was told
the item was ready to ship.
On post 134 dated February 6th, 2003, by PedroV
As you know I've sent a PM to Vic Ruiz, who made a very generous offer to help me, with
the details of the transaction.
Shortly after (30-01) I received the following email from Milton (w/copy and paste):
No need to worry it will be shipped out to you since you waited this long
give me until mid Feb, promise it will be there!
Apart from that mail, I haven't heard from Milton nor have I been able to reach him over
the phone number indicated in this thread. I always get the answering machine!
That's the latest. I think it doesn't look good.
post 139 Darren_Falco February 6th, 2003
Pedro,
A couple of weeks ago Milton promised that the PJ would be sent out the beginning of the
next week. Now he wants until mid February? Don't trust him. He is nothing but a common
thief. In fact, the way he is pushing this out you may not even get the original PJ that Vic
and Mike Parker saw. Face it, he sold the PJ to pay off another debt. Generally people who
don't want to answer the phone are doing that for a reason. He probably has creditors
calling him every hour.
Get your money back, not the PJ. Or get some bats and pound every penny out of his lying
hide.
post 145 by PedroV February 6th, 2003
Things started to deteriorate after I made the payment. His answers started to take longer
and longer.
As to him starting this thread, all I can say is I managed to talk to him once over the
phone,(his cell so he told me, number mentioned above). I was polite and he seemed a little
nervous. He was familiar with all the arrangements we had made a few months ago and
mentioned starting this thread. He even commented about the person who was trying to pass as
me (Jamoka had made a joke!) He told me he would mail me right away with all the details of
what had happened (?). He never did!
post 160 Susan7566 February 7, 2003
Well I read this whole darn thing. Hard to believe. I reported uncle Miltie to Tiffany,
Cartier, and Paypal...and asked them to shut down his fraudulent web site. I told them all
that a friend of mine (Pedro) got ripped off by this a-hole.
Interestingly he only accepts Paypal on his web site....so there goes the theory of ordering
his crappy watches, stepping on them, and returning them.
This guy is a real thief...all you have to do is see his completely dishonest web site. He
makes no mention of the fact that his products are crappy knock-offs sold under designer
labels.
Sorry Pedro...you got screwed
post 212 February 12, 2003 by Xantos
well milton there is no excuse for what you have done this man has waited months and paid
10,000$$ up front and all you send him is lies and delays you may flame all you like it will
still not change what you are
The thread is eight pages long and has two hundred and fourteen posts.
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This is a link to another forum about the senior authenticator and the buyer Pedrofrom Portugal.In this thread, the administrator of the forum suspended two of the senior authenticator'sposting accounts for the forum - MiltonLuban and MiltonJLuban.Post 8 Xanatos April 18, 2003this man is not going to give pedro
anything but lies
i believe i am going to inform ebay
about m.r. luban criminal historyPost 13 PedroV April 18, 2003Stefuel,
At the time he had the ad for the 9500LC in audiogon not ebay.He has used at least another user id in ebay before: "miltonluban@hotmail.com"
I've checked it's id history on ebay. It says user suspended.MiltonLuban post 30 April 19, 2003The projector was shipped 2 weeks ago. I can see it on our loading dock as we speak. The check for payment bounced. I have refunded the money in full. This whole deal has cost me a lot of money, so I'm selling other equipment on Ebay to recover the costs.Nick Satullo post 33 April 19, 2003This would be amusing if it weren't for the fact that a real person got swindled out of real money, and many of us participated vicariously. Would it be funny to you if someone beat you out of thousands of dollars, and then made this joke about it?Jay Wilson post 34 April 19, 2003Sure Milton, I'll take both...yeah, I want to buy something from you after all this!
What do you mean there is no 9500LC? you were the one that started this by coming in here looking for Pedro!!! Funny how we never heard before that the check bounced. Pedro, did it? OK, so maybe it did, that took you 6 months (after your 1st looking for Pedro) to ship the pj? Grow up. this is rediculous. If it shipped 2 weeks ago, why is it still sitting on your loading dock? If it's shipping, why did you refund the money? Something obviously doesn't make sense. Geez....Note: On the orginal thread, it was established that the item was paid for by bank transfer, and the senior authenticator said he was trying to contact him to ship it in January, 2003.Nothing in the original thread about a check payment and a check that bounced.Link and post from original thread at bottom of this post.Jay Wilson post 51 April 20, 2003You know what Milton, I hope Pedro is able to sue your ass off. And I hope someone informs all your bidders of your intent you rip someone else off. You strike me as pretty much low life scum at this point, and your little silly comments are not winning you any brownie points. They're childish and I would bet piss everyone off in this forum. I actually kind of hope that david shuts this thread down just so I don't have to listen to you gloat about what you've done to Pedro. I hope thwy ban you too so I never have to listen to your bull$hit again. For the record, I've hated your little avatar since you put it up there too...
I hope someone rips you off for 10 times the amount you've done to people, and I hope the next person you rip off is able to really make you pay. Maybe it will be someone in the mafia, mob, or other crime ring and we read about you in the newspaper!
Pedro, do whatever you've got to do my friend, and let me know if there is anything I can do to help you out.Xanatos post 52 April 20, 2003milton luban
i don`t know if it is you posting
or someone joking around
but i am sure you are reading this thread
and getting a good laugh
remembering all the fun you had
stealing pedro`s money
and then posting how you needed
help finding pedro
and how pedro was going to have a happy ending
well we all know your secret milton
your nothing more than a bag of human waste
doing a imitation of a man
and a poor one at that
and one day you will rip off the wrong person
well you can guess what will happen thenThis is a link to the original thread in which PedroV said ihe paid by back transfer, nota check.PedroV post 4 January 4, 2003Hi,
I don't know what Jamoka is trying to do but it's not funny. I am Pedro, I live in Portugal, not Spain and my forum id is PedroV. I bought the PJ from Milton and paid through bank transfer on the 25th of Sept.
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Post 13 PedroV April 18, 2003Stefuel,
At the time he had the ad for the 9500LC in audiogon not ebay.
He has used at least another user id in ebay before: miltonluban@hotmail.com
I've checked it's id history on ebay. It says user suspended.That thread establishes as of 2003 that Milton Luban had been suspended from ebay.Ebay id sportmemories2005 was the first id selling Substance Collectables signed items in 2007.I call your attention to this feedback on that id from April 15, 2007 left by buyer amerbada55INCREDIBLE! Auction ended early at a higher price- Randi is the best! 1st class!The reason the buyer left the name "Randi" as part of the feedback was because the name registered tosportmemories2005 was Randi Gelman.Please refer to this web page:
Randi Gelman9725 64th Ave, Apt A18Rego Park, NY 11374-2211The address for Substance Collectables in 2007 wasSubstance Collectables9275 64th Ave. Apt F16Rego Park, NY 11374Notice that both have the same address, but different apartment numbers.It appears that the senior authenticator did not want the name Milton Luban registered with sportmemories2005 to avoid detection by ebaymanagement that a previously suspended user was returning to the site , in violation of ebay policy.ID sportmemories2005 was suspended by Ebay in June, 2007.
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Scan 1 From Substance Collectables web-site: Three Muhammad Ali signed trunks. Text reads " trunks come with our company'scertification. Real opportunity for re-sell on any online auction ( EBAY etc.") Buy them, try to sell them on Ebay, and they will be removed.
Scan 2 Showtime Boxing Super Middleweight Tournament Photo by Francisco Guzman of New York Sports Day.
Scan 3 the same photo used by senior authenticator of Substance Coilectables to advertise his Boxing News site.
Scan 4 Evander Holyfield signed boxing glove of Hollywood Collectibles
Scan 5 Holyfield signed glove of Hollywood Collectibles used by senior authenticator for Substance Collectables
Scan 6 George Foreman photo by Terry Thompson of PR Photos
Scan 7 Foreman photo of PR Photos used by senior authenticator for Substance Collectables
Scan 8 Image from Title Boxing web site
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Milton Luban is not only a crook and a sleaze who is running a fraudulent business and will no doubt eventually be busted for it by the feds, but he is also one of the goofiest looking people i have set my eyes on. Him always giving the thumbs up and mean mugging for the camera makes his "business" look phony without even having to look at his horrible forgeries.
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I made a mistake with the above addresses
The address for Substance Collectables in 2007 wasSubstance Collectables9275 64th Ave. Apt F16Rego Park, NY 11374should have been the below which is the same as Randi Gelman just 2 doors up.Substance Collectables9725 64th Ave. Apt F16Rego Park, NY 11374
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Permalink Reply by GuardDogg on
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BEWARE: DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES
Carl I cannot agree more with ALL of your comments. I purchased an item from Substance Collectibles that had their own "authentication" on it and it turned out to be a fake and confirmed fake by 3 top well known reputable authenticators. It appears that Milton uses items on his website authenticated by PSA/DNA, JSA and pre PSA/DNA by purchasing those items via auction sites, that he can pick up cheap, marks them up 300% and then slips in his own "so called" authenticated items which are fakes. By doing this little game it appears to the buyer that his site is legit. I think he overprices the authentic items because he does not want to sell them. He wants to sell his fakes instead but if someone new to collecting sees an item authenticated by one of the top 3 and it is something you don't see many of then an uninformed buyer may think it's expensive because its rare and you don't see many of them so then I am sure he won't complain about taking their money for an item priced at cost +300%.
BEWARE: DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES
Milton is nothing but a scammer and is the best representative of a scammer, at that. This forum should remain active so that buyers who want to search online about SC will see that they should stay away from his items and the over priced authentic ones. There are many sellers on ebay selling items with Certificate of Authenticities that look like they came from a home printer and even they are allowed to sell. So for Substance Collectibles to be banned tells you that he is known as the KING OF FAKES. I would love to hear from others that have purchased fakes from Milton and somehow start a "sign in" page and when we get enough people on that list then post it separately online to show up in search results and possibly provide that list to any court that may be in the process of hearing claims against him for selling fakes and hopefully get him shut down, period. There is a lot of this going on unfortunately, however, we all know for a fact that Milton is one of them.
BEWARE: DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES
So, Milton subscribes to this forum? Good, I hope he reads it all and is seeing a trend in the buyers market building up against him. He may laugh as he reads but deep down he knows exactly what he is doing and that it will all catch up to him and when all uncovered, he will not laugh any further. If he is nervy enough to create this scam then you don't expect him to really be bothered by this forum because if he can sleep well at night knowing what he is doing then, yes, he will laugh at all of this. In his "warped" mind he probably sits back and thinks "well, at least everyone is talking about me, it's free advertising, and no one will believe all this anyway". You have to put yourself in his shoes. A scammer does not get afraid of a forum like this. Hopefully, it will all serve buyers/shoppers well. Best case scenario, this helps in putting another nail in his business coffin.
ON A MISSION:
XoutFAKES
BEWARE: DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES
Carl, do you think I have enough "BEWARE" in my posting? LOL
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I am glad there is this forum to vent about this company. I am out a lot of money and since my purchase was recent my credit card company said they would handle the matter.
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HERE IS SOMETHING I FOUND ON SUBSTANCE COLLETIBLES WEBSITE (NOTE THE BOLD PRINT):
Authentication in Auctions: Substance Collectables does not fool around when it comes to authenticating our product. We do not print out COA's on the computer and we do not offer expired auction letters (or copies of them) from PSA or JSA. This is against both companies policies and is unethical. Please do not be fooled by those that provide copies of these letters as authentication. They are all over eBay. Yes, maybe a representative looked at a small portion of the lot and deemed the whole thing OK to auction. That is the best case scenario and you end up with an autograph that has absolutely NO authentication whatsoever. Not advocating that any of these are or are not authentic, and you may get a good autograph that may pass JSA or PSA/DNA, but the facts are that the authentication is all for not. Substance Collectables provides REAL authentication on our products. We pay a lot of money to go the extra mile to authenticate so that the item you are getting is as authentic as any in the hobby. Once in a great while a lower end signature may not be cost-effective to spend the $ to authenticate. In those rare cases we just do our very best to be sure and claim the piece to be 100% authentic. We do not claim to have a photo of the celebrity signing the item as some sort of proof. That is a well known trick that should be avoided if you are not familiar with the seller. We are always happy to answer any questions about the authenticity of the signatures that we take great pride in bringing to you. If you buy from us, you can be sure the authenticity will NEVER be in question.
NOW THAT YOU SEE THEIR POSITION ON PHOTOS AS PROOF OF A SIGNING, HERE IS A COPY OF WHAT IT SAYS IN ANOHTER AREA OF THEIR SITE:
Authenticity: All of our Autographs come with a certificate of Authenticity that Guarantees that the autograph is genuine. This is a Lifetime Guarantee. Most of our autographs also come with either a photograph from the auctual signing, security hologram, or a video from the signing, We try to attend all the signings if possible as you can see by our supplied photo's.
AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, THEY SAY THEIR AUTOGRAPHS WILL COME WITH A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SIGNING FOR AUTENTICITY. JUST ABOVE THAT THEY SAY THIS FORM OF AUTHENTICITY IS "TRICKERY", SO TRICKERY THEY DO?
THIS IS OUR POINT IN THIS FORUM. THIS COMPANY PLAYS EVERY ANGLE ON THEIR WEBSITE. YOU CANNOT BE SAFE BUYING FROM THIS COMPANY. THEIR POLICIES ARE ALL OVER THE MAP IN WHAT THEY SAY AND CLAIM UNDER AUTHENTICITY. ALSO, I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN ETHICAL WEBSITE TALK SO BAD ABOUT "OTHERS" AND WHAT OTHERS DO. THIS, TO ME, IS A MAJOR "RED FLAG" AS IT IS A DEFENSE MECHANISM FOR SOMEONE THAT CANNOT BE TRUSTED THEMSELVES. THE ONLY THING AN INTELLEGIENT PERSON NEEDS TO DO IS "READ" WHAT THEY STATE THROUGHOUT THEIR WEBSITE. YOU WILL FIND CONFLICTS IN THEIR POLICIES AND COMMENTS MADE FROM ONE EXTREME TO THE OTHER.........ITS JUST AMAZING.
DO NOT RELY ON THIS COMPANIES OWN AUTHENTICATION PROCESS. IT'S NOTHING BUT "SMOKING MIRRORS".
ALSO......SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES SHOULD PROOF READ THEIR TEXT ON THEIR WEBSITE.....AND....USE SPELL CHECK ALSO!!!!
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I like the part about how your items will "never be in question" if you purchase from Substance Collectibles and Milton Luban. This company is nothing but another NE Autographs. Selling bad items and trying to use other legit items to fool people into thinking that their stuff is good. They steal images from authentic sites and post them on their site, as if they were the owners of those images. They consistently pump out a never ending supply of fake autographs. And EVERY AUTOGRAPH FROM SUBSTANCE COLLECTIBLES AND MILTON LUBAN ARE IN QUESTION. In fact, its not really a question, its a certainty. Their are so many deceptions in the homepage alone, that you never even have to look at the items to know the site is bogus.
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