Drew Maxipad and Steve RocchiHead about to get theirs, finally. If he ripped me off for 200.00 I'd spend 20K to sue his a**. This guy was burned for close to 200K, so I say if he has 200K to p*** away, he has the beans to sue the shoes off these idiots and hopefully he holds a grudge like me. While a nice development, it won't stop all the complete blithering idiot losers on Scam bay.

Non-compete would have been worthless anyway. PSA is in CA and JSA is in NJ. Would be a very difficult if not impossible non-compete to enforce. Enforcing a non-compete in CA alone is almost impossible since CA very rarely recognizes them as legal.

Did not know that,, thx for the info.

Fuddj,,, you are the best,, I think I am funny but you always crack me up.

Drew Maxipad and Steve RocchiHead ,,, LOL,, LMAO

The hardest part of winning this lawsuit is going to be the expert testimony on whether or not these autographs are authentic. Authenticating them is opinion only and to somebody like a judge or anyone outside the hobby they have no idea who's good at it or who isn't. There is so much bad press and factual mistakes made by all of them that any expert witnesses brought in would easily be chewed up by a defense attorney. It would take 5 minutes of research to shred PSA or JSA as experts. The court would probably consider a weekend night course in cursive handwriting over the confusion of trying to explain experience and self study as an authentication method. This will be interesting, if it ever makes it into court.

We can always hope the judge has a GFA authenticated Mantle on his desk in a display that's worth more than the ball.

If they wanted to do a class action lawsuit I am ready to testify. Antiquities - Toby Stoffa scammed me for $8500.

@Rick You wouldn't present a company as an "expert", it would be an individual. Someone like Steve Grad for instance would have no problem testifying as an authentication expert with a proven track record. I'm sure Epperson would qualify as well.

the problem is the defense will go for "it's your opinion vs. ours." we all know all of GFA and AAU stuff is garbage, but to a judge, they'll need to weigh one expert's knowledge vs. another. and for every person the "good guys" present, the defendants will find someone to refute Epperson or Grad. Makes no difference that we know what the deal is, it only matters what you can prove. i'd want to come at it from a real scientific perspective... like i'm sure with some testing, one could easily prove many of the Safe At Home Mantle/Maris fakes were printed on paper with high quality inkjets or lasers that didn't exist when these guys were alive. show that info to a judge/jury, and they'd sink their teeth into it. show that 12-point (or whatever it was) checklist that GFA "supposedly" runs when they authenticate, and ask them to prove their scientific methods. and when the pile of obvious forgeries starts to pile up against them... when the science PROVES what opinion can not... that's when the good guys will really strike a blow against them.

of course, the real juicy part of the this won't be the trial, but the depositions, as I sure many of you know already. 

They have all made mistakes. There is no authenticator out there that a defense attorney can not easily find mistakes they have made. PSA will get blown to pieces and Steve Grad will say what? Yeah my company sucks but I don't? Good luck with that.The lawsuit going to bash one guy for gaining and capitalizing their celebrity on Pawn Stars yet another guy who gained celebrity from the same show comes in and testifies?

No doubt training and certifications will come into play. Without any these experts would be chased out. These folks will stick to this is my honest opinion and if I'm wrong it was an accident defense.......but prove it.....like they always do.

I want to see this lawsuit win as bad as anybody. It just gets confusing and sketchy when trying to explain authentication and forgeries to those who don't understand. I talk to others about this who are not autograph collectors and I lose them in the first 5 minutes. Just think it will end up a big mess of "he said, she said" and gets tossed. This isn't the first time somebody has sued for being ripped off yet these places survive it over and over again. Just too low of a priority in the legal world to matter.

They need to bring the source of the items into play, most of the items sold in the Vegas stores are supplied by Tony Trumaine, has been unloading this crap for years and the FBI is on to this guy just a matter of time, all if not most of this stuff is coming from 1 or 2 people, follow the trail.

These crooks could not stand to have their books opened up. The sellers books will lead to the forgers,,, the sellers might give up the forgers if LE starts to get into the picture. This might open up a big can of worms.

Gentlemen you have hit the nail on the head...

We don't want dueling authenticators on the witness stand... that would only give the presiding judge a headache...

We want an investigation to track the source of the autographs...the chain of ownership...just who was the young lady in Liverpool who got the Betles to sign tht albumin 1964  ???

The items that Antiquities sells have no chain of ownership...or least that is what we strongly suspect and that's because they are mass produced in a backroom somewhere. Get Toby and her staff to tell the world EXACTLY WHERE they acquire these items and FROM WHOM  and you've won your case.

The name Tom Trumaine has been mentioned. Don't know the gentleman but if true I've got a feeling we're about to learn plenty more about him...

Also would the proceeds from crime legislation take effect here? As mentioned the Las Vegas outlet has sold multi millions of dollars in fake merchandise. Are they potentially in line to lose it all ????

Since Bullpen is rather similar, how did they go about proving one authenticator over the other in that situation?

Not sure they did use one authenticator over another Wascher. If I remember right they focused on the actual forgers and got them on wire taps and caught them with forgery supplies and inventory. Most of the authenticators were never charged or prosecuted. Most of those who were charged copped plea agreements so there wasn't much if any courtroom authenticator drama that I remember.

If I remember correctly the Feds had wire taps and they turned the gang leader who ratted out the forger and others. 

Operation Bullpen had informants they turned from the inside, wire taps and video of Marino forging and talking about it. I believe they also covertly marked balls and photos, which later appeared with the signatures of dead people.

I'm not sure it's a great idea to speculate publicly on the strategy the plaintiff may take, but I'd assume it's more comprehensive than "expert vs. expert."

Ok my likening this to bullpen was because of the thousands of  "forensically examined items"  by some of these guys is similar to them actually being part of the creation of the items.  I wasn't sure how it was actually reported initially to feds/FBI.  Thanks for the info.

My Brother Dan is the subject of this thread. He isn’t supposed to speak about the matter publicly, but I can tell you that he’s satisfied with the result.

And I hope these people get put out of business soon.

let me guess, Dan either won lawsuit but had to settle for less money than awarded plus his silence in order to collect? Or they preemtively offer  good $$ but requiring silence? 

No comment.

In my opinion, somebody who knows a lawyer should start a class action; get a bunch of injured parties working together to put them out of business permanently. I’m in Vancouver or I would do it. They exist only because their victims allow them to exist.

Well written, Michael!!!

Here's the lawsuit that Daniel Odobas filed against Antiquities, GFA and AAU. The plaintiffs and defendants asked for the court to seal it, and it did.

Luckily one of the members of this site sent me a copy.

Odobas%20vs%20Antiquities-GFA-AAU%20Lawsuit.pdf

Michael, welcome here...thanks for joining us!

Wow, I just read/skimmed most of the lawsuit. My first comment, sorry to denigrate the litigant, but some guys just have too much money. Elvis, Hendrix, Harrison and more,, no suspicions??? My second comment is HOW GREAT IS THIS. These guys nailed for apparently big bucks!!! Super!! Great!! Wonderful!! This made my day.

holy moly Richard, did you just say this on this?

"My first comment, sorry to denigrate the litigant, but some guys just have too much money. Elvis, Hendrix, Harrison and more,, no suspicions???"

Ouch man... that's a low blow. And I resent comments like this. It's only people that have little money that bash people who have money to burn. Give your head a shake. 

Anyway... I just read the file too... thx for posting Steve.

richard s simon...

Let me add that I know multi millionaires who are serious collector's that have have been burned by what they "thought" were reputable sellers with authentications. 

Don't blame the victim

Agreed Goodcat53. Interstate commerce. Mail fraud. Makes me wonder why they aren't in jail.

Thx Michael and hopefully the hammer comes down hard on these clowns one day

Goodcat,

Antiquities is in Caesars Palace and has been for almost 30 years. Builds confidence.

Do I know you cat? Sorry if I offend but I have been fighting the bad guys my whole life, trying to educate the good guys. All it would have taken was a little investigation on the buyers part to have found out a lot of info. Chris posts everywhere about these guys. A little work on the buyers part, before spending his money, would have saved him all this grief 

All he would have had to do was google some names.

Indeed it would build confidence to buy. 

Richard...

I'm very happy your fighting the bad guys. But to blame the buyer is nonsense, especially with a place of high standing like Antiquities. We know it's all bogus now so hindsight is always our best friend. Were you born with all the knowledge you have? Did I know my wife was a raving lunatic before marriage? Live and learn brutha, live and learn. 

I was never really married but I hope you get my point. 

And you can't equate money with knowledge. That's just ridiculous. 

Looks like you touched a nerve, so we'll just leave it at that. 

Who did that "high standing" company use to issue COA?

I am new here, however, not new to collecting. I have done everything from print overlays, pay for quick opinions, to buy only at auctions and I still have spent over $10,OO0 of forgeries. I am not even in middle class according to these new tax codes.

I wish I had the talent that some of you have. I really do. I feel like a nuisance asking "Is this good autograph?" How much sense is that anyway to ask complete strangers on the internet.  Dr. GOOGLE is always right Richard (sarcasm)

It is not the buyers fault. That is lunacy. Why would a novice, intermediate or even advanced collector believe that Caesars Palace Antiquities has forged items. With or without a COA, which can also be forgeries. WTH!!!

I totally get being upset at forgeries. Trust me, I remember  dry heaving when i found out that the 1 item that I bought for myself after saving for 4 years is a fake. 

Instead of blasting victims, help teach others how to spot forgeries. Use sites like this and post threads like the DiMaggio and Mantle threads. Those were bada$$. 

Thanks to everyone here who has taken a forgery off the market.  Also, thanks for letting me be a nuisance.  

If there were some magical area of collecting where buying with the eye of another, or on the strength of some papers, alone, actually is a good idea...well, then it would not be any fun for me anyway, nor would I learn as much. I like the "why" part and figuring it out for myself as best I can. You can learn a LOT without ever opening your purse.

PS - I hate stickers.

Danny,

You are anything but a nuisance. You are doing exactly what we hope more collectors would do: ask lots of questions, try to get educated, try not to get burned or burn others...try to make collecting a safer place for everyone.

You and collectors like you are the light at the end of the tunnel.

+1!

Thanks Steve. 

Drew Max and Steve Grad both (I believe) appeared on Pawn Stars. I can see how the most advanced collectors can get fooled. Why would the HISTORY CHANNEL use people who are not good authenticator? 

Steve, this site has saved 1 collector. Keep up the fight.

"Why would the HISTORY CHANNEL use people who are not good authenticator?" Because they are a network that does not care about being accurate. They care about the "show" they can create, that looks good and draws viewers. One of Chris' goals in posting so much about TPA's is to hope that collectors find his posts (just takes a little effort) and steer clear of bogus sellers and bogus autographs. It is horrid to see so many criminals in this hobby but they are enabled by people who do not do any homework and just blindly spend money. I would think that these people applied due diligence to their businesses to obtain the money that enabled them to buy these items. Why not apply the same efforts into spending their money?  The red lights are everywhere in the autograph hobby. If people would think about their purchases and apply some logic they might not get burnt. So many criminals have sprung up because it is way too easy to sell their crap. 

I get it Richard. What you, Chris, Steve x2, good at, are doing is awesome. I chase bad guys everyday. 

What they r saying about 30 year old company is that it gives the presence of legitimacy.  When you go to the grocery store for a can of green beans only to find out that when you open it up it is a can of carrots? It's the same thing as buying a forgery.  I hate them as much as I do carrots. 

I have private messages you and others here asking for help with a project I am working on to combat this stuff. I do not and probably never will have some of the knowledge here. However, I do have other skills that truley think will help change the industry for all levels of collectors. 

Ebay is probably the most dangerous place to buy autographs for people who don't know autographs and the bad guys (sellers, Forensic BS and so-called authenticators) know it.

Unfortunately, Ebay (and I've stated this hundreds of times) is heavily-populated with delusional autograph collectors and impulse buyers and the bad guys know it and that's why they are successful selling their crap on Ebay.

And Ebay DOES NOT CARE!!!

All EBay cares about is the money coming in from the sales of forgeries.

Check out the link below.

Does the buyer of the below item think they got over on everyone else!!!

https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ebay-seller-sliding...

the plaintiff Dan is from Canada? Must be extra hard to sue in another country-hats off to dan