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Signed Stevie Ray Vaughan from Antiquities—How can this be?

Hi there,

I purchased a SRV signed 1989 Fender Stratocaster guitar from Antiquities. When I received it, it came with no COAs. I contacted Antiquities and a requested the Forensic Documents that they told me all of items have. They sent me the documents and behold no forensics, just a COA and a letter of provenance dated after the date I purchased the guitar. mmmmm. I guess they can do letters of provenance while you wait. I decided to take it to a Professional FDE (Forensic Document Examiner) who has been doing this type of work since the 70s to get it checked out. He came to the conclusion that the signature that he examined was and I quote,

"In the case at hand, this analyst has determined that the questioned
signature is not a 'signature' in the strict sense, as it does not disclose
formation, rhythm, slant and slope (line quality) characteristics intrinsic to
natural, non-conscientiously written signatures. However, it does disclose
character of an artistically stylized rendering based on composite
characteristics of legitimate signatures of Stevie Ray Vaughan."

Antiquities, Toby Stoffa did honor their policy and refunded me my money. After a while I checked out their web site and saw that the signed guitar was up for sale again. How can this be when it is a rendering and not a signature? I guess my third party FDE with over 30 years experience opinion is not work nothing. I think his opinion is the most unbiased as he has nothing to gain or lose.

I checked their website today and it is not being displayed. They must have sold it. Have to wonder how some people sleep at night knowing.

Murray

Tags: Antiquities, Fender Stratocaster, Forgeries, SRV, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Stoffa Toby

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Comment by BallroomDays67 on June 25, 2013 at 8:41pm: Basically it means that it's a skillfully but slowly drawn forgery.

Comment by Carl Ryan on June 25, 2013 at 8:51pm: I gotcha Ballroom. I thought it was referring to those new fascimile graphs that are popping up on guitars.

Comment by Murray D. on June 25, 2013 at 9:31pm: I am thinking Ballroom is correct. I started calling it a painting. All I wanted to know did SRV sign the guitar. It failed the first step in the process of determination. I did not want to pay to find out how it was done as it would have had to be removed from the shadow box to do so. Doing this could void Antiquities policy for refund.

Carl Thanks for your comments. very interesting. Just to let you know this was my first purchased piece. When I started getting the hairs on the back of my neck standing I was frantically searching the web and came across Roger Epperson's web site and did the $15 QO. His comment was all the shapes are wrong and in his opinion it was not SRV signature. I took it with a grain of salt and decided to use an FDE up here in Canada. When he told me that it was not a signature I was relieved. I asked him if was blatantly obvious and he told me it was.

I suspect that Antiquities bought it off of Doug Green from Pepperland but I could be wrong. The reason I am saying this the COA they sent to me was from Doug Green. But what gets me is I sent them the report to get my refund and they just ignore it and re sell the item. As Toby said and I quote "Even the best of certifiers have differences of opinion," If that is the case then the COAs are not worth the paper they are written on. Just have to find one and pay him to say what I want. Unlike my FDE I used I had to pay upfront before he would even look at it so money being owed to him would not bias his results.

Cheers

Murray

Comment by Josh Board on June 26, 2013 at 12:12am: Here's something I've ALWAYS wanted to ask people and keep forgetting. When you guys get a refund, does that include the postage you paid (when ordering a piece via mail), and the price you pay to send it back? I sure hope it does.

Sorry about the SRV. I had the opportunity to go backstage and meet him, or Joe Cocker (both played on the same bill). I picked Cocker, and Vaughn died a year later. Arrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!

Good luck on the SRV hunt, though. I always like when fans try to acquire pieces from the guitarists they like.

Comment by Murray D. on June 26, 2013 at 7:58am: In My case I did do a dispute via a credit card to insure refund. In my Antiquities did agree to pay for return shipping. I did get my taxes that I paid back from my government also. I am out hundreds of dollars for the FDE though.

Comment by JXE on July 6, 2013 at 8:17am: Why did you spend hundreds of dollars on the FDE when Epperson already told you what you needed to know? Was that a requirement for the return? It would have probably been cheaper for an Epperson or PSA rejection on it. In the future, I reccommend Epperson quick opinions before buying music stuff. I do it every time now.

Comment by Murray D. on July 8, 2013 at 3:20pm: Epperson's quick opinion is exactly that an opinion. They also told me AAU looked at the pictures and they believed the signature to be real. So which opinion is correct? I needed documented study and report of the signature from a person educated in the field for a refund. For an Epperson or PSA rejection the shipping alone would have bee way more money then using my local guy. I might use Epperson's quick opinion in the future but I don't think I personally will need it because if the seller does not have good provenance I won't purchase the item. It not up to me to prove them wrong. Oh how we learn by our mistakes.

Comment by Jet Jackson on July 21, 2013 at 10:05pm: If you have not done so, go to stevieray.com, the family approved website, and read all the info there. You can learn a lot including info about SRV forgeries, of which there are many, sadly. He signed very few guitars too, by the way. He signed generally 3 different ways, depending on the phase of his career. You gotta do your homework.