Forger Retaliation - And Should We "Look the Other Way"

About Three Years I ago, I noticed an eBay seller that would buy old photos of long deceased celebrities , and a short time later would post the same photos but autographed. I commented about it in another autograph forum. This person responded to my posts with threats. I never heard from him again until recently. He actually posted here in this forum. But, at the same time he posted here, several fabricated "ripoff" reports were all over the internet which entailed ludicrous claims that I sold him a John Hancock letter for over $100,000 that was a forgery and I will not refund him. Hence, I recently sent out the below letter to my customers. My question is is it better to just NOT get involved with the forgery element of the autograph industry due to this type of malicious retaliation?

Here is a copy of the letter I have sent to my regular customers. Feel free to comment:

I am contacting you today to make you aware of someone who has been posting derogatory blog reports about my business. About 3 years ago I noticed a seller on eBay that was buying photos and then weeks later that same photo would be autographed, by “deceased” celebrities (JFK, Bela Lugosi, John Wayne, etc). I commented on this fraudulent autograph seller on the autograph forum “Is It real”. He was eventually banned from selling autographs by eBay . But then I noticed this same individually from New Jersey opened a website that is inundated with obvious forgeries

Well at the time he threatened to sue me for “outing” him. But I didn’t hear from him for the past few years. Then in the Autograph Magazine Live forum I noticed a derogatory post by an individual that I was certain was this same guy. At the same time I was informed by a customer that there were several “Ripoff” type reports on the internet byt this person stating I sold him a John Hancock for over $100,000 that I forged and would not refund him. Well, the good thing is he didn’t make much effort to make his claim sound anything but laughable. You see, I have never even owned or sold a John Hancock (I WISH I did!), and Never sold anything at a fraction of $100,000. Way out of my league.

Now when you type my business name in Google you may see all these reports which are identical, copy and pasted under various anonymous names, but obviously the same guy. So, in the event you came across one of his postings, you know it is a 100% retaliatory fabrication for “outing” this autograph forger three years ago. I suspect what happened is someone else had posted a Real report against him based on a purchase they made from him more recently and he suspects it was me. But, for the past 20 + years I have always tried to be active in the collecting community combating fraud. But, with that responsibility is the risk of retaliation from the bad element that prey on collectors, particularly inexperienced collectors.

I understand why many dealers “don’t get involved”. However, if those within the industry do not contribute to combating fraud and criminal activity, who will? And what will be the ramifications to not just the autograph collecting industry but every other area of collecting, from $50 baseball cards to 50 million dollar paintings.

Kevin

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Permalink Reply by Mr Zipper on November 4, 2011 at 1:15pm

Who is this?

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on November 4, 2011 at 3:29pm

yeah, you should "out" him again... it's obvious that he's not going to sue you (too much of a coward to have lawyers go through his many business dealings.). he didn't sue last time, isn't going to again.

someone has to stand up to these people... plus, maybe this way cyrkin can have this guy kicked out of the forum ANd keep him from writing anything else about you or anyone who has questioned his motives.

oh, and if you did sell him something for 100 grand, wouldn't that have to show up in your tax filings? wouldn't it show up in his as well? i'm pretty sure that comment would be easily nixed... kind of hard to hide 100 grand.

This is what forgers do when they are "outed." they deal in misinformation and then deal in personal attacks. hopefully to try and have the one doing the "outing" plasted as a liar and a cheat. Sadly, it's usually these people who win out...because they never take it to court.. that's the sad part of the internet.. people can claim whatever they want and the guy who's the loudest wins. whether or not the allegations and slander is true, doesn't matter. I mean, if anything, you should sue him... if you can afford it.

The cool part about the internet is that people who want to know, can find out if something is a fake, fraud or forgery. and that's helping a lot. I just read a post on "rebelscum" about the mid ohio con and everyone who posted about the show says they noticed "all the idiots selling fake marvel movie autographs." which means it's getting out there, the information is doing it's job. all we can do is keep it up and maybe people selling bad product will fall by the wayside, putting the value in real stuff back where it belongs. so keep on fighting, it's gonna get better.

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on November 10, 2011 at 7:19am

Mike,

That is the key. As a matter of fact, I invite him here in this forum to produce a "genuine" receipt, proof of purchase or even this Hancock letter itself. I say "genuine" because this all started with his revenge campaign since I reported him selling forgeries on eBay and his website, so I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted to fabricate something. Apparently from his "ripoffreport" comments he uses Charles Hamilton's book to trace signatures.

But of course that will never happen since he will have to reveal his TRUE identity. And the last thing he wants is for the experienced autograph community to see and give opinion on his "shady" autograph business.

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on November 10, 2011 at 7:38am

yes, this is so true... i'm glad you explain the concept of "genuine reciept" because i could see that if you sent him any old reciept, how he could just fake that thing too. to be honest, i think you should keep "outing him" whenever possible and whatever ebay names he may be using. cause this is just getting disgusting.

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on November 10, 2011 at 7:53am

Mike,

He has no receipts of any kind from me. I have NEVER sold him anything. From what I see on his site, he doesn't buy REAL autographs.

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on November 10, 2011 at 8:28am

actually, he probably buys real autographs if he buys anything... he just uses those as his template to sell bad ones.

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Permalink Reply by DB on November 5, 2011 at 4:36pm

"I understand why many dealers “don’t get involved”. However, if those within the industry do not contribute to combating fraud and criminal activity, who will?" Sort of like posting derogatory pictures that before removed seem to get replicated... but having said that too many stand silent and unfortunately for those that don't the fallout can be trying. As such, many will discuss it candidly but choose not to broadcast.

as in ripoff reports you mean; Conman Kevin Conway Conway's Vintage Treasures Report: #783141

Submitted: Thursday, September 29, 2011
Last Posting: Saturday, November 05, 2011
Reported By: John — Westport Connecticut United States of America

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on November 5, 2011 at 6:22pm

Yes

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Permalink Reply by DB on November 6, 2011 at 1:25am

If there's no basis of fact take a play out of Epperson's playbook.

noone likes to give lawyer's $$ or tie it up but when it is completely false with smear tactics employed sometimes it's necessary. If you were accurate on your assessment and this retaliation is false and baseless causing business impact... then action ought to be swift.

While current customers may appreciate the communication it's new customers and repeat business that needs to be clarified.

Unfortunately, there are just way too many smear machines in operation and the more they can silence the more they can press their "non-authentic" agendas.

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Permalink Reply by mike aring on November 6, 2011 at 9:40am

the sad part is... because he's using fake names on all the different sites, you'd have to hire a computer person (investigator) to prove that this is the same guy making all these claims.