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Mantle Difficulty

I've been a collector nearly 30 years. As a Police Officer, I incorporated my hobby in to my work, and studied Forensic Handwriting Analysis. I came across this Mantle, and it caught my eye. I noticed several key similarities, and only a few irregularities at glance. Upon comparison, and under magnification, I see no irregularities in the flow. I find no irregular impression points. Nor, do I see any dragging in the flow of the pen. I've had several Mantle collectors say it is a fake.

Needing more insight, I hired Richard Simon to offer his opinion. As well respected as Richard is on Yankee items, I trust his opinion. He deemed it good. A friend who works at the FBI Crime Lab with Forensic Handwriting, also viewed the signature, and agreed it is good.

That said, there should be little question as to the findings. Thoughts?

I will post photos of the ball, and my comparison exemplars from various years.

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Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 6:20pm

Sometimes a little internal debating and squabbling is good to clear some issues up.

I hope Matt can assist us in our efforts to clean up our hobby.

Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 26, 2017 at 6:22pm

I would absolutely love to. I'm the first to admit, I'm not up on Mantle. Way too many forgers out there. I consult with others when it comes to Mantle.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 6:31pm

Matt, knowing autographs is not a science.

When you have looked at  (as Steve Cyrkin commented) as many autographs as I have, you acquire an "eye" for autographs.  

You previously commented that one of your own Forensic people opined that your "Mantle" was authentic and yet it is an obvious forgery.

Again, I have no idea how forensics equate to autographs.

But hopefully, Matt, you can be part of our site here.

Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 26, 2017 at 6:37pm

That's the plan!

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 6:39pm

Hopefully, Matt, we can learn from you and vice-versa.

Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 26, 2017 at 6:46pm

I will offer what I can. Mantle and Ted Williams are my weakest. I'm still learning the various traits of their forgers.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 26, 2017 at 7:00pm

Actually, Matt, what you have to do, is the opposite.

Study authentic Mantle autographs and filtering out the forgeries will be the easy part.

Permalink Reply by goodcat on December 26, 2017 at 7:09pm

100% agree that it's the authentic sigs that need to be studied. 

trying to study both Legit and Fake is far too confusing. 

Once again... a great thread to follow. 

And absolutely correct that Steve Cyrkin has created a great forum here. I'm very happy I found it and feel more confident in buying now.

Permalink Reply by goodcat on December 27, 2017 at 12:37am

I do have one thing to add.

Ebay is like a thrift store in that many Legit and cheap prices can be found if you dig thru the rubble to find the gem. 

And although I understand that ebay is a greedy money grubbing entity, it takes a specific bond to fight the forgers. And from what I know, the artist or celebrity needs to get involved to protect their items. What I'm saying is... ebay is not soley to blame... the artist must take action. Otherwise it really is just a matter of opinion and that's where the forger's win. 

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 27, 2017 at 6:45am

I agree with almost everything you said.  Except Ebay not being solely to blame.  Ebay is the conduit that forgers have decided to use, thru their handful of co-conspirators, to dump their junk on unsuspecting Ebay "collectors".  At one time, Ebay had a program in place that rid the site of many of these garbage forgeries.  But they decided, probably after pressure from their "power sellers" to cancel the program, and now the cess pool is filled with crap.  but yes, you can find bargains, that is the only upside as a collector.  But the money that Ebay pockets from these forgeries is mind blowing.

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