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Authenticity is Everything
George Harrison real or fake???
A while back I decided to give Mike Frost from P.A.A.S. a chance to authenticate a few of my Beatles autographs. He was significantly cheaper than many of the other authenticators and I had seen his EBay auction a number of times. I decided to send him this mid 70's Harrison autograph which, in my opinion, is pretty cut and dry a genuine autograph. To my disbelief he responded saying that autograph was in fact NOT authentic! Along with this signature I sent him others as well which he deemed as not genuine. I felt terrible knowing that these were real and I was just taken for my money to the tune of $400.00+ dollars. After I received the signatures I did the only thing one could do. I mailed them off to Frank Caiazzo for a true authentication. As expected, the autograph was indeed authentic. I felt a little more vindication when I found out that his authentication services were puled from EBay. BUT! I just ran across another one of his ebay auctions trying to lure unknowing patrons to use his services for Beatles autographs! I was as you can imagine quite peeved. In my opinion, I would stay as far away from a Mike Frost PAAS Beatles authentication as possible. It is my belief that he has no clue what is real and what is not and I would advise to save your money and go with someone more reputable in this business. Take a look at the example for yourself and you be the judge!!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on
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Mike,
I think it is blatantly obvious as to what my agenda was here and I thought maybe you understood that pages ago. You are trying to incriminate me for selling the one autograph that both you and Frank said was not genuine, but in fact I did not sell that one! Why would I sell an autograph that was deemed unauthentic by Frank Caiazzo? Are you trying to lump into a category with other unreliable and disingenuous autograph sellers? Here is an image of the Wonderwall album which is still in my possession and will forever remain because of the fact that I respect this industry enough to never sell this. Also, I never said I lost the COA's from Frank. They were sold with the items!
You say that "that is with a signature that is not my speciality nor one I work with on a daily basis". Well if that were the case and you were not certain why did you just not say that from the beginning when you were authenticating them? Say "Hey Scott, I cant say for certain that this is real or not." You didn't say that. You just went ahead and deemed it as not authentic.
I am trying to let this go and never had intentions of having this go on for days, but it seems that you like to repeatedly put your foot in your mouth and dig a bigger hole for yourself and your "company."
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on
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Thats what got me to xpert. Its like me going to my neighbors house, cause he is having plumbing problems . Then I tell him , well I know a little about plumbing so I ll take a look. After I mess with the pipes and stuff. I turn around tell him he owes me $400 . After I leave he finds out the problem is still the same . He then has to pay someone else now to come fix the problem again . When he see's me , he tells me I didn't do anything . My response to him is " well plumbing isnt my expertise" . I would think he would want to punch me in the face.
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I do commend you for responding to the guys claim on this board.
But this is the exact reason I think Psa or Jsa stays queit. Sometimes its easier .
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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on
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Scott,
I guess you wish to continue this discussion, You are very good at changing and spinning things to make you look as if you are legit. I am an autograph authenticator, I study autographs and handwriting, I have been doing this for some 28+ years. I have a library and additional excess to 1000's of guaranteed authentic exemplars of almost any signature, even broken down to time periods. I am qualified to examine and authenticate almost any signature submitted. When I can not render an opinion, I will issue a full refund and a statement stating that after a full examination, we are unable to render an opinion. Many of my customers are aware of this and I am never ashamed of this. In my statement to you I showed you over 8 problems with your signed item and that was "not a signature I work with daily" as in an everyday situation such as Michael Jackson, Mickey Mantle, Frank Sinatra, and many current stars.
You embarrassed yourself enough with your Dana story with the hot dogs and fries at Disneyland that I thought you were finished. Now lets ask were and to who did you sell the John and Yoko autograph. Do you wish to also post this one that you yourself admitted was not authentic. Also if you do not mind can you please post the 2 turn down letters on this Wonderwall album alone side the record album.
If you would like a refund on the "To Dana" Harrison autograph after I showed my concerns I will be glad to issue you one based upon Roger's comments and Frank's Letter of Authenticity.
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The Dana story can be true , Disneyland has a vegatarian option. Also what kinda of vegetarian was he . Some eat no red meat . They will eat Chicken and Fish . Vegetarian hot dogs have been around since 1949 .
I am qualified to examine and authenticate almost any signature submitted
Anyone with eyesight and an opinion is qualified.
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Its a persons track record that seems to keep them at the top of the business more then the so called qualifications.
Do they get the graph right , a high percentage of the time .
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Please everyone if you will ponder this example.
If a fictional character by the name of Christopher Moralies came on the forum tomorrow and stated that he was born again and that he had seen the light. He apologized profusely for all the damage he had done to the hobby and pledged to never do it again. He apologized for passing most everything he was given, and he pledged to fight the good fight and help out collectors from now on with his forensic authentication skills. Would you believe him? Would the autograph community except him and say, hey you know what, as long as you dont do it again, it will be okay. Would we all be grateful for him for contributing his knowledge to the community from that day on?
I can only answer for myself, and the answer is a resounding NO!! For this fictional character has done so much damage to this hobby its not fixable. He has flooded the market with his COAs which tend to be very questionable at best, which has resulted in countless collectors being out money. No thought for the collectors best interest was ever given and because of that it has made collecting harder today. Even if he changed from that day forward it wouldnt matter how much he contributed to the autograph field because the damage he caused would always outweigh the good. He could act as responsible and knowledgeable as Ghandi but it would not matter one bit because of what has gone on.
So what could I say to Mr. Moralies? Well nothing would really make a difference because i am a nobody in this hobby, only a casual collector who enjoys reading everything he can about the hobby. But i do know that I would never even think about trusting him again. And i would also know that the overwhelming majority would feel the same whether they say it or not.
And it is with that that i leave any further discussion on autograph magazine live. I will sit back and enjoy the conversations when spoke between honest members, but thats all. I honestly want no part in what i am seeing, as i think it will ultimatley hurt collectors beyond mention.
Sincerely
Carl
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Carl,
I completely understand how you feel...but please don't stop participating. Just join in where you want to.
Basically everyone is allowed on this site—even Christopher Morales—as long as they're not disruptive, violate important rules...or annoy me too much. (I have a pretty high tolerance for annoyance, but a few have been kicked off the island. After all, I have to enjoy coming to work.)
Mike told me that he saw the error of his ways, and I told him he is welcome to come on here and try to rebuild his reputation. That involves proving himself, his expertise and his honesty. He has provided examples of new forgeries that have been sent into PAAS, perhaps even new methods of forging, and this is beneficial to us all. He knows people from both sides of the street. That's one of the main reasons I suggested he participate here.
You have been a long-time, welcome member of this site, and very loyal. I really appreciate that. You saw what Mike and his then-cohorts did or tried to do to Roger and me, and if I were you, I'd probably be acting similarly. And frankly, probably yelling, "WTF ARE YOU DOING CYRKIN? ARE YOU INSANE???"
Oh yeah...that's been answered by Steve Sipe at Global Authentics and his friends, hasn't it?
So I don't blame you for shaking your head. You don't have to ever trust Mike. Many here never will. He's got a lot of provin' of himself to do. But I want to give him the opportunity.
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Permalink Reply by MeanMisterMustard on
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Michael,
I have read this entire conversation and viewed all of the comments, replies and rebuttals. You try and use verbose statements and bait and switch tactics to justify the simple fact that you made an erroneous assumption about the George Harrison autograph in question. Experttexpert has not once claimed to be something he is not. He is not frivolously putting his own Certificate of Authenticity on any autographs. He went through the proper means to get his personal collection authenticated and seemed to hit snafu, PAAS, along the way.
You claim that Scott embarrassed himself by retelling the story he was told when he aquired the signature. You say it's not possible for this to be signed by George because he ordered a hot dog. Did you think for a moment that perhaps the hot dog was not for him? Did it cross your mind that perhaps he did not go to Disneyland alone? Shoot, I know when I visit the "happiest place on earth" I don't go it solo.
You come across as the type of person who has to have the last word. You say you want to put this to bed, yet you continue to drag it on with incriminating comments. I think it's funny how in one breath you apologize for a mistake and in the next you basically discredit other highly qualified authenticators.
I think Lennon said it best when he said "You know that what you eat you are, but what is sweet now turns so sour."
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on
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That's from the song "Savoy Truffle," which was actually written by George.
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Mr. Mustard,I do not know who you are nor your qualifications but you have a right to an opinion. I do not see anywhere in this discussion a point where I claim that the signature is not authentic based on the hot dog order by George. I am sorry if you do not read very well or that I may not write very well but no where do I claim that I have made a mistake on this examination and there is no where that I discredit any other highly qualified authenticators. You might want to start over and re read the discussion with an open mind.
The hot dog in the actual story told by Experttexpert was not ordered but eaten by George with his french fries and coke. This all has very little to do with the signature in question, in my professional opinion I do not believe the George Harrison autograph on the back of this vintage Disneyland menu is authentic. I understand you standing up for a friend but I was not looking to hurt Scott in anyway, he was looking to hurt me. With all this said you have not stated an opinion on this autographed menu, do you believe it is good and would you put your name on the Letter Of Authenticity?{And For the Final Word}For a minute I thought this site was the "happiest place on earth"
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You did state that "this example of George Harrison appears to be a mistake on my part", but later listed several issues with the signature that just aren't the case. You did this after referring to Frank Caiazzio as being "one of the top Beatles autographs experts in the world." In his COA, Caiazzo praised what you believe to be a inauthentic signature as being an "excellent example."
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