Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 28, 2012 at 9:28am

Michelle,

Replies can't be moved, but someone can start a different discussion on other memorabilia and I'll delete these.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 28, 2012 at 9:48am

Mike,

Thank you for your hard work here. 

Discussions tend to wander, so please ask the people who mentioned that to check it out anyway. You can tell the ones that are off-track pretty quickly and just skip them.

I don't think there's any need to call in to call in forensic examiners or anyone outside the autograph hobby, since the shapes are off and they're easy to recognize without testing. PSA/DNA only gives opinions through paid services, so some would have to go in for Quick Opinion.

Have you spoken to anyone who know Jackson's autograph who thinks these are real? Besides Darren Julien, I haven't.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on November 28, 2012 at 3:38pm

Steve,

Thank you I think you have done a great job moderating this discussion. It is unbelievable how many people it has reached including celebrity's and members of the Michael Jackson immediate circle. I am reaching out and contacting anybody I think can assist in exposing or shedding some light on this matter. The problem I have heard that is most concerning and I have been on the phone most of the day is the issue of wardrobes and stage outfits being discussed. I know very little about this part of Michael Jackson's life and career. I have been told by more then one person very close to Michael Jackson and the Jackson family that Michael Jackson would almost always have multiple outfits made. Very rarely was a one of a kind suits, hats, shoes made to order by Michael and for tours or even appearances there were sometimes a dozen of the same suit or jacket, hat made for him. I have been told that the discussion is losing some credibility going in that direction. I have also been told that this is delicate and members of the Jackson family may be involved as consigners, and they would if pushed say that the items are 100% authentic. If that happens all of what is said and proven would become worthless. It would be hard to fight the authentication of a Joe Jackson or other members of the family.

It is so important for us to stay with autograph authentication and not to go places that we have no credentials or expertise in. I also have been looking for a statement from PSA/DNA , John Reznikoff, Jimmy Spence and any other autograph authenticator.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 28, 2012 at 4:06pm

Mike,

I sent 10 to PSA/DNA for Quick Opinions earlier and just got the results. I'll post them once I get back in the office.

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on November 28, 2012 at 10:06pm

I had to sign back in specifically to thank TeamMichael for stating this so purposefully.  I was feeling deflated before and couldn't respond.  I reiterate TM's gratitude to Steve for originating this mission and seeing it through with patience, understanding, diplomacy and respect.

Thank you to you both.

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Permalink Reply by Justin on November 28, 2012 at 10:50am

why is Bush posing with pants from the 1979 Destiny Tour..

Bush was probably still living in "Hicksville", Ohio when that tour happened.

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Permalink Reply by Justin on November 28, 2012 at 10:23am

i agree with you Face. really. i do not buy it. it's all the same outfits being re-sold. i seriously doubt there were second, third duplicates of EVERY single piece of clothing from MJ's wardrobe.

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Permalink Reply by Charlotte Stanley on November 28, 2012 at 10:27am

The timing is the only thing that seems too coincidental. But unless you can prove tying it in- it means nothing.

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Permalink Reply by Face on November 28, 2012 at 10:30am

I don't buy it either...!!

can we know if it is the same person who bought the 5 outfits that I listed?

For the last time :Those 5 outfits turned out to be sold months later on Julien's Auctions...! Why is it so hard to see it is weird...?

And one of them turned out to be SIGNED! (apparently a second one... according to Darren Julien)!

These items were sold by Golden Closet via Gotta Have R&R... Including the MJ Indian Tunic that belonged to Bush, I'm SO sure it was Bush the consigner!!!

Michael Jackson Indian Tunic  this Tunic was sold as well months later on JULIENS!!! And this tunic belonged to BUSH!

Of course Darren is going to say there are 2! If they would admit there's only 1, then they're in deep sh!t...

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 28, 2012 at 11:30am

I put together an image with both jumpsuits in it. Look carefully at the wear patterns--where the finish layer has worn away. I think you'll see they're in the same areas but not the same wear.

Ed couldn't give the name of the consignor to Gotta Have It, but I do think that Bush was the consignor to both auctions. The winning bidder from Gotta Have It was a collector who paid $16,500. It wouldn't make sense to consign it to Julien's within 6 months. They'd end up losing money after fees.

Click to enlarge:

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Permalink Reply by Manu on November 28, 2012 at 11:45am

steve, this kind of outfit is peeling out, it's highly damageable so it's possible 6 months later, mutliple transportations and handling had made a change to it. But after scrutinizing it for a long time i can't say both are differents

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on November 28, 2012 at 11:58am

I agree with you on the amount and close proximity of these "double sales".  And from Steve's comparison, I see the wear is on the hip and knee area on both.  But I have to say in this case, there looks like more wear on the Gotta Have It knee.  So if that auction occurred first, then it should have had less wear than the 6 month later Julien's jumpsuit.  But I would need to see better resolution, larger photos at a better angle to really KNOW.

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