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Authenticity is Everything
Michael Jackson Signing Styles in Julien's Tompkins and Bush Sale
On December 2, Julien's Auctions is selling The Collection of Tompkins and Bush. The collection contains 465 lots of Michael Jackson memorabilia, 287 of them autographed.
Michael Bush and the late Dennis Tompkins were Michael Jackson's costume designers for 25 years, during Jackson's most successful period. They were the consignors of the signed Thriller jacket that Julien's sold for $1,800,000 in June 2011.
Almost all of the autographs in the Tompkins and Bush sale are a variation I'm not familiar with. I've only been looking at Jackson's autograph for a few years, though, and we have members here who have collected him for decades, so I'd appreciate your input and exemplars.
If you know Michael Jackson's autograph well, please look at a few images below from the auction and let me know what you think. Even better, browse the auction and upload any similar examples you have: http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/77/
Julien's is the world's premier auction house for Michael Jackson memorabilia, so they would know his autograph better than most of us. I'm just surprised I haven't seen this style before.
Thanks for your help.
Tags: 2012, Julien's, auction, michael jackson, tompkins and bush
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by TeamMichael777 on
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At first i though maybe we have two forgers, Bush and Tompkins, i glanced quickly whilst traveling, but now after studying the sigs posted above it seems there is only ONE forger which is Bush, his style changed a little, not as sig is not as spaced out, Meaning the sig is longer, but its definitely Bush!!! The M in Michael N in JacksoN. and that ugly J in Jackson is so distinct!
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Permalink Reply by Sze Fng on
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This is the response I got in trying to get a refund -
Thank you for your correspondence regarding your recent purchase in the Collection of Tompkins & Bush auction. We are aware that there has been some controversy surrounding the "Collection of Tompkins & Bush" auction conducted on December 2, 2012, and we are sorry that you have experienced any concern or distress as a result of the unfounded allegations being made about the collection or Julien's Auctions.
That we take great pride in our integrity, reputation, and goodwill. For each auction we conduct, along with the information provided by the consignors, we engage in a thorough diligence process to attempt to authenticate the provenance of the auction items. Among other things, if the item was worn for a public event, we will review videos, archival footage, photographs, or other pictorial records of the item and compare them to the item itself. If the item involves a signature or handwriting, we engage in similar comparisons with known samples of the person's signature and handwriting. With respect to Michael Jackson, we also have such signatures and handwriting reviewed by someone considered to be the foremost expert on Michael Jackson memorabilia, Laura Woolley from The Collectors Lab. Ms. Woolley has seen and authenticated more Michael Jackson signatures and handwriting than possibly anyone else in the industry. Ms. Woolley has worked with all of the top auction houses when it comes to items of Michael Jackson including Bonham's, Heritage, and she is regularly consulted and engaged by Sotheby's and Christies. Ms. Woolley has confirmed the genuineness of the items sold in the auction.
We can understand why you would find the allegations troubling. But, we would urge you to carefully review and investigate the credentials, qualifications, and motivations of the people making these unfounded claims before deciding how much weight -- if any -- to give to their assertions. We are aware of no expertise that these individuals have in Michael Jackson memorabilia, signature, or handwriting. As far as we are aware, none of these individuals have ever been retained by any of the top auction houses or the Estate of Michael Jackson to provide authentication on Michael Jackson memorabilia or signature or have had any dealings with Michael Jackson or his companies, or with anything Michael Jackson related. We are aware of no one, other than the individuals themselves, who recognize them as "experts" in Michael Jackson signatures or handwriting.
In short, it is all too easy to proclaim to be an "expert" and to make frivolous and false allegations. It is another matter altogether to support them with facts.
Please be assured that we firmly stand behind Michael Bush and the items sold in the auction. We hope this correspondence will put to rest any concerns you may have and that we can count on your continued support. We truly appreciate and value your patronage.
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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on
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The info Laura Wooley gave the news station who was investigating:
The I-Team asked Julien to provide us with the names of any experts his auction used to authenticate the autographed items he sold for more than $1.5 million on Dec. 2. Julien told us to contact Laura Woolley, owner of The Collector’s Lab.
But Woolley told the I-Team she’s an appraiser of auction items, not an autograph authenticator. And she said one of the authenticators used by the I-Team, PSA/DNA, is reputable.
"I think they do great work," she said of PSA/DNA.
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Sze,
Please Please Please post the info Steve was asking about. Is their anyway you can do a screen cap of the email and post it on here. Its really important in my opinion to have a screen cap of that email. This could potentially be another smoking gun in my eyes.
Hats off to you Sze,
Carl
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This is sickening.
Wasnt this Wooley woman proven to not be an authenticator at all????????
Steve, right here is the proof in writing. Julians is not honoring their commitment for a refund. Its time to spread the word to the news again. Sze, please dont give up, please keep requesting a refund.
Although i may be mistaken, im pretty sure that this Wooley lady is just an appraiser!!! That she actually doesnt authenticate autographs at all, but yet puts a price on them if real. But i could be wrong their. I hope Steve will correct me if im mistaken.
I wonder how Mal Brit is doing. If this is whats going on with people trying to get refunds, then its time to get the word out that the refund commitment is not being honored. Or at the very least, customers are having to jump through hoops to get one. Where as Julian stated in that news interview that anyone who wanted a refund or had concerns could get a refund. Wow, what is going on here with this??????????
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Sze,
What's the name and email of the person who sent that to you?
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Sze,
You were not told the truth. Laura Woolley is a reputable pop culture and entertainment appraiser and consultant. She clearly stated to NBC-TV that she is not an autograph authenticator and did not authenticate the Michael Jackson autographs in the Tompkins & Bush sale.
Darren Julien told NBC that Julien's would give a refund to anyone who didn't trust the authenticity of what they purchased. They should cover transportation both ways as well.
I suggest you contact Julien's litigation lawyer, Sonia Lee, at Raines Feldman LLP:
Email: slee@raineslaw.com
Phone: 310.734.0399
Fax: 424.239.2242Tell her you want your money back including all costs both ways. If that doesn't work, you'll have to go to arbitration, but I think that will work out well for you.
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Permalink Reply by Michelle on
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Wow, they did not even offer to refund the money. They want this email, which is full of discrepancies, to make you feel all warm and fuzzy that you bought the item from Julien's because they trust Bush regardless of whether or not it does not match the photos and the signature looks like Bush's handwriting and NOT Michael Jackson's signature. This is sick.
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Not only that but they guarantee the provenance etc. and watch "video's" of the items lol Well now, the Whitehouse Jacket alone shows their provenance is crap. As well as the "standee"... which to date has yet to be addressed. I have not seen nor heard anything on MJJ Collectors sight yet to answer the questions that were asked. I sure wish we knew what Bravado was doing about the sit. of that item.
This is the 2nd time they have responded with insults instead of explanations.
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Permalink Reply by Helen on
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Lies, lies, lies. I especially love the line
"If the item involves a signature or handwriting, we engage in similar comparisons with known samples of the person's signature and handwriting. "
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HA. Ha.
Julien is not only going back on their promise regarding this auction, they're also not honouring their own regular terms and conditions. At the very least they should now offer to have your item looked at by independent authenticators.
The "motivation" argument is funny, too. WE aren't the ones with millions of dollars at stake here.
Why are they so inconsistent in their reply to buyers? Some people don't get a response at all, some get offers of refunds, others this pathetic attempt to regain confidence. How unprofessional!
I am a bit concerned that they're still not putting distance between themselves and Bush. The FBI must have come knocking by now, what if they were fobbed off in a similar manner, maybe shown Bush sigs from earlier, unchallenged auctions?
Fraud seems to be absolutely rampant in this industry and there seem to be very few prosecutions. What if the police don't have the appetite to really pursue this?
Should we get back to the police with the info about earlier auctions?
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Julien's gets 20% from the consignor and 25% from the purchaser. So 45% for Julien's is enough of a reason to try and not refund money or sit on it for a long time earning interest. Looks like Bush won't get his money for a while.
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what do they compare to?...... other forgeries? They back talk a lot. I know from my own e mails from Darren Julien. I think hes pathological liar. He says whatever fits in the moment and completely says another thing later. They cant keep up with their own lies. No wonder he and Bush get along so well.
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