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Heritage Auctions at it again! Fake Mantle DiMaggio Williams

This is the third time in the past few months that I have contacted Heritage Auctions for having a fake Mantle DiMaggio Williams signed photo listed. I was told, once again, that they put up the item and then verify the signatures. What a joke! I was told last week that item #40120 would be checked. Well, a week later, it has bids and is still up. The Mantle is the typical forgery that we have come to know. I absolutely cannot trust this auction company and would advise potential customers to do their due diligence before placing a bid on any of their items.

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=151313&lotNo=40120

Check it out yourself and other Mantle items they currently have, many are fake.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Null on March 18, 2013 at 12:52pm
Permalink Reply by Steve on March 18, 2013 at 12:56pm
You are right, that is one of the others I noticed. They are routinely putting this garbage up and seemingly hoping that nobody calls them out.
Permalink Reply by Null on March 18, 2013 at 12:58pm

The "Florida" forgeries are taking over the world. They are all over eBay everyday, and dominate Craigslist/UBID/every other crappy auction site.

(the one I posted above is a Bullpen forgery, but the one you posted is Floridian.)

Permalink Reply by Rock G III on March 18, 2013 at 1:59pm

Excuse my ignorance but what is pre-certified? And whom does this?

Permalink Reply by Carlos on April 27, 2014 at 11:51am
It's a glorified discount coupon. It doesn't guarantee authenticity at all.
Both psa and jsa do it.
I know with jsa you have 40 days (I think) to send the item into them for a discounted fee for a letter. After the amount of days are up you have to pay full price and the auction letter is deemed void.
It's a tool to. Get bidders. It Happens at most auction houses

Don't be fooled though - it's pretty much a coupon
Permalink Reply by Chris Nerat on March 19, 2013 at 9:35am

Hello,

This thread has been brought to our attention so we would like to provide some clarification of our authentication process.

First, and most importantly, every autograph sold by Heritage is authenticated by PSA/DNA, James Spence, or both.

We cannot stress this enough.  Due to the logistics of running constant auctions that begin and end every week, occasionally we must list material prior to its evaluation by PSA/DNA, who examines our Sunday Internet Sports Auctions (SISA).  While this is admittedly not ideal, it is important to understand that no auction reaches its conclusion without that evaluation.  Lots are pulled prior to the end of the four-week bidding process if they are deemed not authentic or questionable.  Never will an autographed lot in a Heritage auction close prior to examination.  We do understand it can be frustrating to bid on a lot only to have the auction end prior to the conclusion, but we would all agree that this is preferable to selling material that is not genuine.  We would also suggest that ideally those who feel they have spotted a problematic item in a Heritage auction would bring it to our attention directly via email to Sports@HA.com, which would be the most effective course of action to ensure speedy removal of such items from auction.  The entire hobby is improved when mudslinging is replaced by goodwill and a helpful intent.

Thank you,
Chris Nerat
Cataloger - Consignment Director
Heritage
Auctions www.Sports.HA.com
ChrisN@HA.com
1-800-872-6467 X1615

Consign to
auction at http://sports.ha.com/consign
Get a free Auction Evaluation
or Formal Written Appraisal at http://sports.ha.com/appraise
find out what your sports
memorabilia is worth at http://sports.ha.com/common/worth.php
Changing out "sports"
for your subdomain (like "coins", "fineart", historical", etc. will make those
links work for you.

Permalink Reply by Steve on March 19, 2013 at 10:38am

Chris,

Thanks for taking the time to post.  I have to say that I find your process to be a poor way of doing business.  Telling me "occasionally we must list material prior to its evaluation by PSA/DNA" is somewhat unethical.  You don't have to list these items prior to authenticating them, you choose to do that.  To take the time to photograph the item, write a description, post in on the site, as opposed to verifying it's authenticity first does not make sense.  I understand you want to get an item up and running as soon as possible for a certain auction, but you are sacrificing the perceived competency of your business.  

This would be like taking reproductions of high end furniture and putting them on my sales floor, and then checking to see if it is real or fake after they have been seen by thousands of customers.  Of course, I want the item out and seen as quickly as possible, but I do not want a customer falling in love with a piece that I can not provide them.  

By the way, I have called and emailed.  My statements are not mudslinging, but factual.  As soon as material comes in, items should be pulled aside if questionable.  

Here is the question:  How is it more beneficial to list an item first without verify the authenticity as opposed to checking it out first.  Other than the greed play of hoping the item goes unnoticed or the authenticator may be temporarily blinded that session, it is not the slightest bit beneficial as too much time is wasted on the other aspects that I mentioned earlier, such as, taking the photo, writing the description, adding it to the auction site.  I have to get this item up by Sunday's auction even if it is not verified, but I could wait one week and have it checked out first.  I know which one makes more sense, do you?

Permalink Reply by Gatsby on March 19, 2013 at 11:23am

Since This lot 40116 (now withdrawn) is in: 1 - Sports Collectibles Session
(Lots 40001-40169) - 10:00 PM Central Time, Sunday, March 31, 2013.

& that would be 11 days from today for the online bidding to conclude followed by extended bidding intervals presuming it's warranted for that item.

does seem, as pointed out, backA$$wards especially where bidders are fighting it out and watching lots that have a chance of being withdrawn.  Seems they could focus resources on other items.

If bidders are made aware of this and it is clearly noted in your T&Cs then it is your process.  However, the additional T&C's seems to imply something else;   When the lot is accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity (or its equivalent) from a third-party authentication provider, buyer has no right of return. On lots not accompanied by third-party authentication or under extremely limited circumstances not including authenticity (e.g. gross cataloging error), a purchaser who did not bid from the floor may request Auctioneer to evaluate voiding a sale; such request must be made in writing detailing the alleged gross error, and submission of the lot to Auctioneer must be pre-approved by Auctioneer.

As a heritage customer, I was certainly not aware of the process you have explained.

Permalink Reply by Steve on March 19, 2013 at 12:03pm

I'm so glad you mentioned this information.  There seems to be quite a bit of double talk coming from Heritage. They claim in their response here: First, and most importantly, every autograph sold by Heritage is authenticated by PSA/DNA, James Spence, or both. 

Yet, in their own words, they clearly state on their site:  On lots not accompanied by third-party authentication.  

The more they talk, the more they contradict themselves.

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on March 19, 2013 at 2:54pm

I agree with what you are saying Steve. It doesnt really make any sense at all. Why in the world wouldnt PSA look at all the items before the auction? It really makes no sense other than to get bidders mad at Heritage. I know if i was bidding on for example: a guitar singed by Django, and getting excited about owning it, and then have it pulled from the auction, i would be pretty upset, in fact really upset. If its fake then im glad i didnt get stuck with it, but i expect the items to be screened before hand for that kind of thing. If this was only happening on occasion, then that would be normal, as all auctions run into bad items from time to time, but to happen every auction is just nuts.

I know i was ticked off the last R and R auction. They had an amazingly rare LP record jacket signed by Elmore James. I was drooling over that item, and had planned to bid very high. But it disappeared halfway through the auction. No explanation given that i was aware of, and i was the high bidder. And i was pissed. But this is the first time anything such as this had happened to me at R and R, so no biggy i suppose. If they found it to be fake then im glad they pulled it. But it was at least looked at before it was put up. 

It also seems very strange to have the public and potential bidders contact Heritage to let the know about the errors in their own auction. And again, im sure that happens periodically to all auction houses, but regularly?? That seems very very odd. AFterall, its not the job of the autograph community to let auction houses know of their bad items.

The whole process just makes zero sense in my mind.

Permalink Reply by David Wright on March 19, 2013 at 5:47pm

G'day Chris, thanks for taking the time to reply and, if I may, I would like to add my small voice to the replies directed towards your answer. I am sorry but I simply cannot see the business sense and customer care in the approach to selling that you outline. Why on earth would a reputable organisation choose to make items available to the public that it has not THOROUGHLY checked out, authenticated, provenanced etc etc and then get collectors excited .... only to have to pull them at a later date?

This just doesn't make any sense .... it's like saying "we're not really comfortable with this piece but, if you want to, go ahead and bid. After all, we can disappoint you later!"

In my humble opinion and please forgive me for paraphrasing you, but - the entire hobby is improved when auction houses list items AFTER they have done all due diligence to ensure authenticity.

Imagine being able to say (and I paraphrase you again) "Heritage Auctions prides itself on the fact that nothing is offered by us until it has been deemed to be authentic, unquestionable and evaluated by PSA/DNA".

IMHO, many collectors would be knocking at your door to slap you on the back and say, "Goodonya mate" :)

All the best, David

Permalink Reply by Steve on March 19, 2013 at 7:24pm

David and Carl, I'm glad you guy's get it.  You both have made excellent points.  The Mantle signatures bother me the most because they are clearly bad.  They should never get by the first person who looks at them, especially since they are the same type signature that continually gets pulled.  

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