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Authenticity is Everything
Who to Trust?
ok , as my mick jagger is up for decussion on another thread I will pose this question who do we trust ? it was bought from a dealer in the uk who belongs to uacc and aftal with a lifetime garentee do I ask for my money back after having the item for over 2 years or what I have no problem with don who asked if he could show it on here as I have done in the past myself and I have no problem with the comments but I wonder what is happning to my hobbie who do I trust !! on other threads uacc and aftal have been brought into question we all know ebay is terrible where does it leave us the buying public !!
for the record I believe the jagger is genuine and will be upset if not, as I am old school and trust people
any response on what other members think would be helpful
alan
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Xwiesy on
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Trust the signature, not so much the dealer.
Yes, you can see a dealer who sells all forgeries and stay far away. But there are honest people who make mistakes. Let the signature be your guide.
In your case this is a tough one, because we have an example that is not textbook. That is why I would tell any collector to stick to text book examples. That way you are'nt left answering questions when you go to sell it.
My belief is that this example is authentic- the "a" and "g" are spot on. You can go on ebay right now and see signatures that have been authenticated by people we love and respect that share dead on similarities.
Your example is definitely rushed- when examining this type of signature we must remember that there is what the signer intended to do and then there's the way it turned out. Since this turned out a ilittle different than the majority, we're left looking for distinctive marks within the signature that can help us out.
As I said, I like the "a" and "g" as being telltale signs of authenticity.
I was asked to look at this and immediately reviewed about 30 known exemplars and I lean authentic.
These ones that stray are definitely more difficult, and perhaps it's worth $15 to have Mr Epperson look at it.
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To give you an example:
There is a dealer that is getting pummeled on this board as we speak. Accusations, insults...
And yet right now there is an authentic signature on ebay with their certificate.
And for a steal of a price- if someone purchased it, ey could probably submit it to Roger, get his cert and turn around and make some money.
Or that same buyer could just rely on the dealer's reputation and pass up a good deal.
For the most part, let the signature be your guide.
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No one
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yes your right it is rushed , I asked the dealer as I allways do about the background and it was obtained at lords cricket ground mick being a big cricket fan , ive tried mick there and he s very elusive so it would be a rushed sig
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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AFTAL and the UACC Registered Dealer program have some excellent dealers, but they also have a number of dealers who regularly and knowingly deal in forgeries. Several dealers I would avoid like the plague are members of both organizations. Two of them are founders of AFTAL. (Garry King of Autographica is the only founder of AFTAL I trust.)
It's a shame, because AFTAL seemed to do it so right early on.
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Permalink Reply by Rich on
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I used to errantly consider UACC RD's a safe purchase, but the fact is that there are great dealers and so pretty mediocre ones (at best) in the RD club. Some dealers just aren't that competent. As the landscape of the hobby has changed over the past 10 -15 years (more ability for buyers to purchase straight from collectors, more avenues for both authentic material and forgeries, etc), I think that some of these "old school" type dealers might struggle more and more to determine what's good and bad.
I personally have very short list of signatures I know well enough to make a purchase entirely on my own knowledge. As far as dealers and sellers go, that list is also short - at least as far as sellers who I can make a completely worry free purchase from with no concerns about authenticity.
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not much hope for us collectors then!!
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It depends on how cautious you are. I narrowed my collecting focus to people I'm actually a big fan of, or good deals from top sources (i.e. promo items from Newberry comics). I'm more critical of sellers and sources than I used to be, and I generally take a pass if there's any skepticism. I try to avoid bad examples altogether (unless I get it myself), even if it comes straight from someone with a rock solid reputation. I'd rather not own anything that I have even marginal concern about.
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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on
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Im very conservative when it comes to autographs. I figure 75% are forgeries. I wanted a Jagger autograph so I bought a bravado brussels book. Im lucky that I can just overpay to get a reasonably safe signature. There are good deals out there but this "hobby" is full of minefields! Im on the fence with your Jagger because its a bit atypical, I see similiararities but also differences. In which case when cautious I would lean against.
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Didn't follow discussion but this is who you trust: if this is a REGISTERED ( not just a "good standing member") of UACC and AFTAL its pretty much speaks to itself, you can trust. However, even there is a possibility of simple misfortune for many reasons, sometimes no one aware of... Otherwise, like Garry King teaches a 100% guarantee if you obtained autograph yourself and in person (not through the secretary, assistant, etc.). Everything else leaves a shadow of doubt... Go to www.autograph-market.com and educate yourself, this web site is really fascinating. Particular dealer that you can trust is Markus Brandes. You can find him on brandesautographs.com or autograh-market.com He has a solid reputation and you are not gonna be disappointed. Good luck.
And do yourself a favor: don't buy anymore crap on eBay...
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Markus is A+. Great site.
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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I would be very very careful of trusting certified dealers on the basis of being a UACC or AFTAL dealer. I have seen plenty of forgeries being sold by UACC dealers. Mostly from the same ones. Same with AFTAL dealers, although i havent searched through any AFTAL dealers inventory in well over a year. And the AFTAL scandal left a horrid taste in my mouth, so i wont go there. But i would just be careful as some once good dealers go bad, or just have forgeries that are coming in from guys they trust.
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