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Permalink Reply by The Memorabilia Vault on November 17, 2014 at 9:01am

Again we wanted to explain these are just some observations based on the knowledge we have. We just wanted to share this info with you all. We think we put the photos in the correct order and added everything needed. Again you can take any of the photos and info we provided and do you own layering and comparisons. We provided this just so you would have some information based on our observations. Again these type of comparisons can be done with many pieces of art and some will be more exact then others when compared to the reference photos used to create the art. This can also vary from piece to piece. Any questions on exactly how an artist created their art should be referred to the artist as they are the ones who created it using whatever technique they felt appropriate. I apologize for any typographical errors I our posts. Thanks

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Permalink Reply by wascher on November 26, 2014 at 5:21am

Someone replied to you showing a Shirley Temple drawing the person believed to be traced by MJ himself, and now its gone.  I am adding it back in because I believe its important in the discussion (and because Ema and I both discussed it, and without the picture, one does not know what we're referring to).

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Permalink Reply by Max Rickardsson on November 26, 2014 at 5:56am

I removed it because you seem high and trying to find fault in them.

This drawing is authenticated by Roger Epperson.

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Permalink Reply by AJ Jones on November 26, 2014 at 6:02am

Theres plenty fault within them from what I can see.....and just because Roger Epperson authenticated it, definitly doesn't make it real....In my opinion, that is hideous....even down to the signature.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on November 26, 2014 at 7:52pm

Hi Max,

I added it back in because removing it after several of us commented on it, breaks the flow of the item that was being discussed.

In my comment, I also mentioned that there is no way to prove he didn't draw/trace it either, (since he can't answer that for us.)  But when I look at some of these (ESPECIALLY the ones that are coloring book traces or ones that look incomplete)  is creates a huge question-mark in my head, especially since up to this point we've never seen anything like this in any of his drawings.  None of his art up to this point looks even remotely close to these.   One of the things I also did - with known drawings before his death, was to take some of those pieces and line them up with his reference pieces (I used some of his original Charlie Chaplin's and found the ref online )... but when overlapping those, they didn't even come close to the original (though looking at them side by side, you could see that it was the reference he was drawing from).  And of course he drew it beautifully and it looked like a finished drawing.  I personally just have a really hard time believing that MJ would trace something - since he was an accomplished artist.  I hope that helps clarify what I was trying to get across.  Its not about being right or wrong, but using known exemplars from his past artwork to arrive at an opinion.

If this is your piece I apologize if I offended you (I don't know if it is or not), but that was not my intention if it is.

I'd truly love to find out where all of these came from (not just the one you removed, but all of them) and when they were supposedly drawn because that could shed answers on all of it. 

-w

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Permalink Reply by Ema Dan on November 17, 2014 at 9:33am

Will you tell us where the Shirley Temple drawing came from?

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Permalink Reply by wascher on November 18, 2014 at 11:56am

Someone emailed me and asked me if I saw this one yesterday, and I had not.  Yes this is also traced (poorly).  And I agree with Ema, I would love to know where these pieces are coming from.

And the biggest question I have (something Ryan touched on the other day) is WHY would he trace drawings (amateur looking traces at best) and sign them, when its factual he can freehand better than this.  Sure there is no way for us to prove he didn't but these aren't even reflective of the quality that is seen in some of his early childhood drawings.  Asking us to believe he drew all of the recent things being discussed, is like asking us to believe that he developed amnesia and could no longer draw, so he traced a bunch of photos/pics and signed them.  Does this even sound logical from the man you also consider an art genius???   And whats even more illogical is that they all seem to be coming out after he died.  Anything after his death is questionable, even if they came from "friends".   We have already seen what some of his closest personal friends have done - in the Bush Juliens thread alone.  After that incident, everything should be considered suspect--from anyone (especially if they go against what we know as solid drawings prior to death)

I posted a folder yesterday HERE and I did my best to put some of his earliest pieces first. The most recent drawings/paintings/sketches look like someone is just tracing pics in a rudimentary style, and signing them and calling Michaels, for an obvious financial gain.  You can compare whats being shown here to some that are in the folders and in no way do I see any similarities.

Again this my opinion. 

-w

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Permalink Reply by Lizzie on November 18, 2014 at 1:54pm

I agree.  I have one more drawing which I think is original , and  two more photos of MJ drawing /with his art.  In the photo where he is wearing red, he appears to be copying (not tracing) a small photograph of the boy:

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Permalink Reply by wascher on November 18, 2014 at 4:09pm

I had the proof drawing pics in my files too but didn't put the two and two that he was free-handing Lizzie, awesome catch.  I have several different view of that.

I didn't put the first one because I hadn't seen that one prior to his death.  It may be original, but I don't remember where it came from and I didn't want to put anything in the files that I couldn't at least show some back up as to where it came from.  I also had to do some digging to find known exemplars that were spot on "for sures", going through some of my books and things to see that they were there first (before he passed away).

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Permalink Reply by Lizzie on November 18, 2014 at 10:20pm

Thank you: I entirely understand about the evidence of pre-09 authenticity. (I guess this might be an 'old 'piece which might have been faked a long time ago; it certainly looks to have some age). Glad the photo is helpful.

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Permalink Reply by Lizzie on November 17, 2014 at 10:00am

I do agree with you, and that is why I think tracing/ using projections from photos is different from tracing cartoons.  Cartoons are based on very simple shapes, and it is important to be able to place and manipulate these correctly to achieve a feeling of 'animation', movement, expression etc.  I  am not sure that tracing is a very effective learning process for line-based cartoon drawings, and I also go back to my concerns about MJ signing tracings of another artists finished work.  Signing a drawing made from a  photo is a very different thing (as a photo is not in itself a finished artwork created and owned by another artist).

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Permalink Reply by wascher on November 19, 2014 at 11:30am

Just wanted to let you guys know, I did touch base with Brett-Livingstone Strong, Michaels art business partner.  I had asked him if he had seen the slew of fake MJ artwork that has been hitting the market.  He responded:

Thanks for your message, we have seen the fakes they are horrible.. and are in no way any association to Michael's Authentic works of Art created through Michael Brett's Partnership.
We hope you have a blessed day!
Warm Regards,
Strong Management

I also invited him to participate in this conversation here, or if he can make any comments - we'd truly appreciate it.  I doubt he would really participate, as everything printed about MJ is usually twisted and misconstrued - its also very rare that anyone in MJ's past camp will make comments on anything.  And I truly understand that.  Its' also time consuming as you all know. :)

I did find the original new story about Brett and Michaels partnership that started back in 1989, and thought I might share it in this message, it touches on their history together, and shares some of Michaels drawing styles, and intimate details of his art history...

This was found on a Fan Forum as the original news piece has long disappeared, and only the photos and short blurbs still exist online. 

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell

Michael Jackson's Art and Studio, Revealed for the First Time
By Sophie Duvernoy Wed., Aug. 17 2011 at 11:00 AM

The interior of Michael Jackson's art studio, which he shared with friend and artist Brett-Livingstone Strong
​
See more photos in "Michael Jackson Art: An Exclusive Look at the Musician's Drawings and Paintings."

Until now, Michael Jackson's art collection was shrouded in mystery. It was said to be stuck in a legal dispute over possession. Then, people speculated that buyers such as Cirque du Soleil's Guy Laliberté were interested. It's been valued at the staggering (and slightly unbelievable) sum of $900 million.

One crucial fact: Jackson's art collection isn't art by other people -- it's mainly drawings and paintings that he created himself. So what does that art look like?

Yesterday, LA Weekly was the first to visit the (until now) top-secret Santa Monica Airport hangar that Jackson used as his studio and art storehouse. The collection is currently owned by Brett-Livingstone Strong, the Australian monument builder and Jackson's art mentor through the years, in conjunction with the Jackson estate.

Though the entire art collection has been mired in disputes and battles for rights, Strong claims that he is working with everybody -- the family, the estate, as well as others -- to exhibit and publish as much of Jackson's work as possible.

According to Strong, he and Jackson formed an incorporated business partnership in 1989, known as the Jackson-Strong alliance. This gave each partner a fifty-percent stake in the other's art. In 2008, Strong says, Jackson requested that his attorney sign the rights to Jackson's portion of the art over to Strong. Now, Strong is beginning to reveal more and more of the art as he goes ahead with Jackson's dream of organizing a museum exhibit.

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell

Some of Jackson's original drawings hanging on the wall. Prints of these were donated to the L.A. Children's Hospital. ​

Strong gave us a tour of the hangar, beginning with the Michael Jackson monument that Strong and Jackson co-designed several years ago. It's perhaps bombastic, but designed with good intentions and the rabid Jackson fan in mind. Strong explains, "He wanted his fans to be able to get married at a monument that would have all of his music [in an archive, and playing on speakers], to inspire some of his fans."

The current design is still in the works, but it's conceived as an interactive monument -- fans who buy a print by Jackson will receive a card in the mail. They can scan this card at the monument, and then have a computer organize a personal greeting for them, or allow them to book it for weddings. Jackson initially thought it would be perfect for Las Vegas, but Strong says that Los Angeles might have the honor of hosting it -- apparently, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa recently paid a visit and made a few oblique promises.

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell

The Michael Jackson monument mock-up, featuring miniature pilgrims and a bridal couple ​

As for Jackson's art, the contents of the hangar barely scratched the surface of the collection, as Strong estimates Jackson's total output at 150 to 160 pieces. A few large pieces hanging on the walls had been donated as reproductions to the L.A. Children's Hospital last Monday, along with other sketches and poems.

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell
Portrait of Bubbles, Jackson's beloved pet chimpanzee
​

In all of his art, certain motifs kept cropping up: chairs (usually quite baroque), gates, keys and the number 7. His portrait of Bubbles, his pet chimpanzee, shows a monkey-like face vanishing into a cushy, ornate lounge chair. "He loved chairs," says Strong. "He thought chairs were the thrones of most men, women and children, where they made their decisions for their daily activity. He was inspired by chairs. Rather than just do a portrait of the monkey, he put it in the chair. And you see, there are a few sevens -- because he's the seventh child."

Jackson, who was a technically talented artist -- and completely self-taught -- fixated on these motifs, elevating everyday objects into cult symbols. Strong added that Jackson's sketchbooks are completely filled with studies of his favorite objects, in endless permutations.

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell
MJ's portrait of George Washington -- he initially planned to do a series of all of the presidents, but never continued it.
​

But Jackson also created portraits: a small sketch of Paul McCartney, and a large drawing of George Washington, created as Strong was working with the White House to commemorate the bicentennial of the Constitution back in 1987. He also sketched self-portraits -- one as a humorous four-panel drawing charting his growing-up process, and a darker one that depicts him as a child cowering in a corner, inscribed with a sentence reflecting on his fragility.

Shannon Cottrell
Strong, holding up a four-panel sketch that Jackson drew of himself.
​

As an artist, Jackson preferred using wax pencils, though Strong adds, "He did do a lot of watercolors but he gave them away. He was a little intimidated by mixing colors." Some surviving pencils are archived in the hangar; Strong moves over to a cabinet on the far wall of the hangar and pulls out a ziploc bag containing a blue wax pencil, a white feathered quill and a white glove that Jackson used for drawing.

Jackson turned to art as times got hard for him. "His interest in art, in drawing it, was just another level of his creativity that went on over a long period of time," Strong says. "It was quite private to him. I think he retreated into it when he was being attacked by those accusations against him." The sketches and drawings certainly reveal an extremely sensitive creator, though it's clear that Jackson also had a sense of humor.

Jackson's art was kept under wraps for such a long time simply because of the pedophilia scandal, which erupted right around the time that he was looking for a way to publicize the works. "A lot of his art was going to be exhibited 18 years ago. Here's one of his tour books, where he talks about exhibiting art. He didn't want it to be a secret," Strong says, pointing at a leaflet from the 1992 Dangerous World Tour.

Shannon Cottrell
Strong and Jackson wearing matching leather and velvet jackets, celebrating their artistic alliance.
​

Prior to that period, Jackson and Strong had met and become fast friends. This marked the beginning of Strong's mentorship, in which he encouraged Jackson to create bigger paintings and drawings, and exhibit his work. The idea behind their Jackson-Strong Alliance was that Strong would help Jackson manage and exhibit his art. Notably, the alliance birthed Strong's infamous $2 million portrait of Michael Jackson entitled The Book, the only known portrait Jackson ever sat for.

In 1993, everything blew up. At the time, Jackson and Strong were both on the board of Big Brothers of Los Angeles (now known as Big Brothers Big Sisters), a chapter of the national youth mentoring organization established in L.A. by Walt Disney and Meredith Willson. They had planned out a fundraising campaign involving Jackson's art. Strong explains, "We thought that if we would market [his art] in limited edition prints to his fans, he could support the charities that he wanted to, rather than have everybody think that he was so wealthy he could afford to finance everybody." When the pedophilia scandal erupted, Disney put a freeze on the project. The artwork stayed put, packed away from public eyes in storage crates.

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell
Jackson's sketch of an airplane at the Santa Monica airport
​

As for the spectacular appraisal of $900 million for Jackson's art collection, Strong says that it derives from the idea of reproducing prints as well. The figure was originally quoted by Eric Finzi, of Belgo Fine Art Appraisers. "The reason somebody came out with that was because there was an appraisal on if all of his originals were reproduced -- he wanted to do limited editions of 777 -- and he would sell them to his fan base in order to build his monument, support kids and do other things. You multiply that by 150 originals, and if they sold for a few thousand dollars each, then you would end up with 900 million dollars." Fair enough, though now Strong says he has gone to an appraiser in Chicago to get that value double-checked, and they arrived at an even higher estimate.

The story of Jackson's art ends up being quite a simple one, though confused by so much hearsay and rumor. Strong and the Jackson estate will slowly reveal more works as time passes, and an exhibit is tentatively planned for L.A.'s City Hall. Negotiations with museums for a posthumous Jackson retrospective are still underway, but Strong has high hopes. He's even talking of building a Michael Jackson museum that would house all of Jackson's artwork.

Courtesy Shannon Cottrell
Jackson's sketch of the White House doors, to which he added the following quote from John Adams: "I pray heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men [MJ's addition:] or women rule under this roof."
​

We'll leave you with Strong's own description of Jackson at work, during the time where they shared a studio in a house in Pacific Palisades:

He was in a very light and happy mood most of the time. He would have the oldies on, and sometimes he'd hear some of his Jackson Five songs. He'd kind of move along to that, but most of the time he would change it and listen to a variety of songs. He liked classical music. His inspiration to create was that he loved life, and wanted to express his love of life in some of these simple compositions.

I came to the studio one day, and we had a Malamute. I came into the house, and I heard this dog barking and thought, Wow, I wonder what that is. I go into the kitchen, and I couldn't help but laugh when I see Michael up in the pots and pans in the middle of the center island. He's holding a pen and paper and the dog is running around the island and barking at him, and he says, "He wants to play! He wants to play!" He's laughing, and I'm laughing about it as I'm thinking to myself, "I'm wondering how long he's been up there."

Michael Jackson's dedication to art: so strong that he'll end up perched on a kitchen island.

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