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Authenticity is Everything
Rock and Roll Collection Concerns [Title revised by moderator]
I see this site brought up a lot on this site for autograph references.
http://www.rockandrollcollection.com/
problem is, who ever this Stephan is he has a load of forgeries up here too. I get messages from people from time to time saying he has offered to sell a member here an item or two and it is never the real stuff imo, it is usually the fake stuff. Greed. He wants money but doesn't want to part with the good stuff.
Eagles are his most famous work. Attached is a screen shot of his fake work (not limited too). Notice how they are the same..... duh. If you look through his stuff he has loads of fake Zeppelin, Beatles, Springsteen, Stones, Floyd and more. Even the so called authentic Traveling Wilbury's is not real. Maybe the George and Petty are ok but 100% not the Lynne and I'm pretty sure the Dylan is bogus also. Anyway, I don't wish to debat about this guy and his ethics but if you are using him a reference be careful and I wouldn't buy anything from the guy either.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by N.Steiger on
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I didn't give you a list of Waters to buy Jason. You brought that auction to me and I also told you other peoples were real as well. you made the choice to buy mine. And my value was accurate and VERY fair. I understand what you are saying, I do, however I chose to be anonymous on here and disclosing that wasn't something I planned on doing. Was I supposed to say don't buy that one? What reason should I have gave? Honestly. I guess I am sorry I sneeked a real autograph in your collection lol.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Charnick on
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The authenticity isn't the issue, man. And listen, I'm not nearly as steamed as I would be if it were a fake. But if you honestly don't see an issue with keeping that fact from me, then I really don't know what to tell you. I get the whole anonymity thing, really I do. But we had what I thought was a perfectly pleasant convo through eBay, and on here as well, and you could always have sent me a PM telling me, and explaining why, and I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. Plus, it would have made me happy to know the truth, see you explain your position like a mensch, and you could have gained a lifetime customer. Now, I can't see myself ever buying an item from you again.
I want to believe a lot of what you're saying, and I believe you feel you're doing what is right. But when you obfuscate on stuff like this, it totally undermines your own credibility. I still love the LP, you've seen from my posts on FB how much I cherish it and I don't regret the purchase. But you gotta be more forthcoming in situations like that man, you just got to. No one's ever gonna believe a word you say when you do otherwise, even if you're right.
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I get it. I didn't want you to buy it but you did. I hated doing that but my family comes first and the back lash I will inevitable get from being outed while calling our forgers is sure to come. My friend over where I live told me to stop helping people years ago cause of how desperate forgers get when you take away their income and the damage they can cause. One false rumor can ruin you. I don't know you personally so I didn't know if you'd keep that private. My apologizes. I always wanted to keep my as a seller separate from this site because I don't want people thinking I had a motive, like peddle my own s***, over someone elses. Again, you are first and only person to ask me about one of my items. I don't even use my items in my studies....
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This is not the first and only time this has happened. First time being caught, apparently yes. Exact same thing happened to me in March of this year. The LP is good, hangs on my office wall to this day. But I asked for an opinion and without disclosing that he was the actual seller, confirmed authenticity, told me that the seller had turned down a particular offer and suggested the value. In my business this conduct would mean termination of employment and either suspension or total revocation of all professional certifications, licenses and registrations. This goes directly to basic ethics. To pretend to be an objective third party, "just here to help" while commenting on your own merchandise is inexcusable. Aside from the fact that posting some Henley autographs and calling them forgeries because they look alike is a million miles from proof or even basic analysis, I'm stunned that the discussion seems to so quickly and easily moved beyond this ethics issue to refocus on Stephen Duncan. If the collective soul here is willing to ignore outright, proven breaches of ethics and continue to search for reasons to diminish the reputation of a guy who everyone (except N.Steiger) seems to believe is fundamentally honest, then this discussion is corrupt and useless. And Jason, you have every right to be livid about this. Don't let anyone influence you to believe otherwise.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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Yeah that was a little underhanded but you bought an authentic piece. I'd be happy with that. The guy has nice sigs and knows his autographs.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Rick,
What reply did you answer? It's hard to tell who you're referring to in the discussion.
Thanks
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Hi Steve, I think he was referring to me buying an authentic piece with N. Steiger's actions being underhanded. I've had more time to think about this and while I am still upset about what happened, I'm not nearly as livid as I was when I first found out.
To respond to Christopher above, I agree with everything you said 100% regarding his behavior keeping such information a secret. Especially on the internet where so many people have developed into such great sleuths, it's near impossible to keep something like that underwraps forever. That he went a whole year without it coming out is amazing to me. But out it is, and it's a shame it had to happen. I think he brought it on himself, obviously, and while I understand why, I probably would have chosen a different route, were I in the same position.
That being said, in the grand scheme of things the way the world is today, this is not in insurmountable transgression. Inexcusable? Perhaps. Unforgiveable? Well, the item is undeniably authentic, and given what I've learned about the industry and the marketplace since I purchased it, the valuation he gave isn't too far off at all, I believe. So I'll get over it, and at the end of the day, still very happy with my piece.
That being said, if he wanted to continue tossing around other accusations that meet resistance without facts to back them up, and he doesn't want to heed the admin's continued warnings to abide by the rules of the forum that have been put forth, then he alone must be responsible for the repercussions of those actions.
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Jason - you seem to be a reasonable and conscientious person. Like you, I've calmed down a little since last evening. My view is that sodoautographs sells some pretty high quality stuff and that N.Steiger has long personal experience collecting in-person autographs and has gained some measure of subject matter expertise through that process. I like how you phrased it above; inexcusable, yes. Unforgivable, probably not. We all make mistakes. But if you're going to hold yourself out to the world as an expert, and if you're willing to publicly denounce complete strangers as criminals, then you need not only subject matter expertise but also some reasonable claim to the moral high ground. Once questions of integrity materialize, its difficult to take the rest seriously. For the record, in this instance, I do not believe there was much, if any substance to the claim to begin with. Best of luck to you. Be well.
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I can't believe I am doing this. So here is a montoge of some of the fake Henley's. There are more, see if you can spot them on his site now that you've been shown. Forger always make the same mistakes. They are lazy for one and usually always stick to forging one style. I could do the rest of the guys but I don't have 5 hours to kill and I don't want to educate Mr Duncan or who ever he getting these from. This are imo typical factory line forgeries my friends.
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Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on
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As someone who doesn't study or own a Henley autograph, what exactly am I looking at here? Will the authentic samples be forthcoming?
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Look at the D's and H's to start. All the same. Most of the y's are the same, some differ but you know. Don's signature is signed really fast and it has a flair to it. Plus all these but the guitar and drum head are signed at the same angle. Again, he is lazy and probably sits are desk. Real Don's are all over the place and ever direction. Good Luck Pete. Maybe later I'll post a montage a real ones.
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I see the fact that these are all in the same hand, nearly all match perfectly, my point was that if you want to show your findings on such a matter it is best to show samples of authentic pieces, alongside the reported fakes.
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