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Authenticity is Everything
Another Pink Floyd athenticty concern
Sorry to say I feel I have rooted out another very good set of Floyd forgeries and unfortunately the CD was passed by PSA/DNA, the Epperson Cert has been determined a fake.
This drum head just popped up on ebay. The CD has been passed around from dealer to dealer on ebay for a couple years now and is now passed by PSA/DNA.
I remember seeing the CD hit ebay years ago it I thought it was good but then a month or so later I saw a drum head hit ebay almost identical to the new (pictured above) and I noticed it was identical to the CD also, including one member being signed in red and thought... that was funny. So now this new one pops up and it became clear to me that these are in fact not real.
Because I have been getting in person autographs so long I am trying to present myself with a scenario that would produce these two (shown) items and the one that I saw a while ago (I can't find an image of it unfortunately) but I simply can't. Here are some bullet points.
- In person autographs never match identically from piece to piece like these do, it's like a machine signed them.
- The red pen, so getting something signed in red is not common, I has happened to me only once at a baseball game when Ozzie Smith grabbed a kids red sharpie and signed everything with it. People who would have the opportunity to get these three men should not have a red sharpie. And what? Hey Rick, can you a Dave switch on this one??? ya right.
- This is a classic forger move. Imagine him sitting at his desk with a pile of pens and little brain and screwing this one up.
- The drum head is a Chinese generic head, autograph hounds buy these in bulk for a few bucks a piece and so do the forgers. Similar to the Team Derek MO they buy hundreds of $1 bin records and they rarely even bother to properly take the price tags off, forgers are lazy and cheap. A VIP who would have the opp to lets say be in the same room as the 3 men would not have one like this ever and even if they were signed at different times it is clear that the members, given the identical signatures would have signed the CD and Head at the same time respectively so he would have had to ask them all to switch pens per signature which would never happen. So to me that eliminates that scenario.
- See the hitch in the Wright signature I circled. This is called indecision and it shows the forger couldn't continue with the flow Rick typically signs with. Rick does not do this hitch, and even if let's say he did it once cause he was bumped in a crowd or something you certainly would not see two identical.
- Since these are from the same hand I can see Dave squishing his signature flat to fit it on the CD, but not the drum head. This is dead give away.
I mean not the blow up PSA, again, but they really need to stop, take a moment, do some research when authenticating high end autographs. If you are strictly going off exemplars then you are not looking for pasterns left by forgers per say. I can't blame PSA though, it looks real with no context of the other one but they should know how hard David Gilmour is to get to sign and he should be very diligent in authenticating them.
I am interested in any feedback.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David K on
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I have photos with all of Floyd escept SYD (there are some who made a trip to England to get a photo with Syd ..I have seen 2 or 3 )..Yeah photo with Dave is very rare... only a few rarer in music... Prince, Madonna, DYlan(I could have had that one), Bob Seger, Walter Becker, Stevie Nicks, L Glenn Frey & Henley(lol) good luck on these doing photos...ever. A friend sent me a snap of her with Don Henley at the DMV..he had no choice..she was taking his motor vehicle photo..and he agreed to take a photo with herif she took a better shot lol figures.
Will see if I can post pics later. I actually need a confirmation on a signed WALL poster I have. from Waters..it came from a giy named NICK in Philly in ther 90s... I always assumed it was the real deal..but I want to make sure..will dig it up.
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Message me me anytime, I'd be happy to look at anything you want to show me. Did anyone actually get Syd to sign anything? I had a friend that went to find him and and sat in that little town for a week and he never came into town.
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Hi
I am sorry this took so long..Had to dig out my album.
I just want to see what you think of this. My concern is the WATERS.. It came with Roger Waters only on it. I had it in storage for years and got it completed never bothered to check on the Waters.now it seems slighly smaller in size than way Waters usually signs. I also have a WALL poster signed by him I woulds like checked out. that came from a guy in PHILLY (the WALL POSTER) From a collector named Nick. (forgot last name long time IP collector).but always want ot make sure on items not seen signed
I have had a few think Gilmour is not real BUT I have a drum head he signed just like this in person. back in 1993. Mason drew the letterbox in 06.. ..I was at his NY apt. Wright signed this on tour with Gilmout in 06 Roger Epperson gave it thumbs up..just want another opinion..a fully signed WYWH is quite rare. I have been burned by PSA on CSNY/EAGLES/ZOMBIES/MOODY BLUES/ZAPPA/PAUL SIMON/STING ALL items I SAW signed. but PSA would not issue a DNA tag items Everyone here gave thumbs up
I have a few other things to post for inspection..not just Floyd
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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IMG_1416-floyd.jpg, 2.2 MB
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David K.- Funny you mentioned how difficult Don Henley can be. I moved to Clearwater. FL in 2000 for a few years and saw famous people often. I saw Henley on Gulf To Bay Blvd. standing outside of his limo by a oddball clothing shop doing nothing. I was going to turn my car around and ask for an autograph, but I decided not to. GLAD I DID after reading your notes. Nothing sucks more than rudely getting turned down for an autograph when you are extremely polite and only ask for autographs when it's most appropriate.
Mr. Steiger- thank you for your help as well.
I have a bit of a long, but cool story if no one minds...
I did become friends with Terry Bollea (Hulk Hogan) in Clearwater (when he lived in his castle looking house in Bellaire, FL). My ex-wife worked at Ruth Eckerd concert hall for a few months when we first moved there and we'd get free tickets to see anyone we wanted: Jerry Lee Lewis and Peter Frampton were the two I loved seeing. It was a really small concert hall for the super stars they'd sometimes get there. There was a way employees got autographs, but my ex was there such a short time she didn't quite figure it out unfortunately. Well Hulk Hogan (my young childhood hero) goes to her job there for Christmas all dressed up and takes a picture with my ex-wife. We were very competitive, so she comes home with the picture and says "look how good this came out". I was furious that she never told me she met Hulk Hogan until a week later when she got the picture to shove under my nose!
So I said "I bet you $100 I'll be in his house (invited in) within a month". So I wrote him a letter telling him about my sports card donations every year since 1989 to hospitalized children and asked if he'd come with me to All-Children's Hospital in St. Pete to donate 50,000 cards and autographs. I found his address online and personally put my letter on top of his HUGE pile of fan letters in his mailbox at 3PM one day. He calls me a few days later and tells me to come to his house. So I went (I was a nervous wreck) and he tells me on the intercom to open the gate and go to the main door which I did. He was stading at the door on his phone and said hold on a minute, I'm on the phone with Steve Perry from Journey. So he gets off the phone with an ear to ear smile and says "how cool was that? Steve Perry called me and said we should hang out sometime and jam!" Meanwhile I know I'm shaking in my sneakers and thinking "HE THINKS THAT WAS COOL???" I'm standing here with HULK HOGAN!!!
So I finally got my composure and explained my idea; that I already called All-Children's Hospital and said you'd come if you could and I gave them two possible dates so you'd have your choice. So he says "sounds great, but my wife will be home soon from her restaurant, why don't I call you in a few days and we'll sit in the house and plan this all out." So I of course said "sure, no problem". He tells me he lost my phone number, so he says "brother, I'm going to put your number on the same paper as Steve Perry's number so there's no way I'll loose it."
He calls back just like he said a few days later and told me to come over. I rang the outside bell and he lets me in the gate and we go into the house (I'm grinning inside knowing I just won the bet with my wife!). We go in the main entrance and he has the biggest TV to the left of the living room I ever saw in my life to this day (it wasn't a projector TV screen either). He tells me to take a seat at his desk near the window in the living room. We hash out the plan and he picked the date and we talked about life, wrestling, family for a good hour. I was in heaven!!! So before I left, I pulled out an original WrestleMania 3 video cassette in the original box and he autographed the outside box with both "Hulk Hogan" and "Terry Bollea' at my request. He seemed a little hesitant to sign Terry Bollea, but he did it. He kept saying how cool it was to see the original video that they sold for like $59.99 when it was first released. So I got to my car and took the first breath I remember taking since I first went into the house.
The day he was supposed to call me to tell me exactly what time to come pick him up at his house, he never called. So I called several times and there was no answer and his machine wasn't on. So iv had to go to the hospital by myself to donate the cards. I wrote him the most angry letter I think I ever wrote anyone before and again put it in his mailbox. He calls me a few days later and leaves a message on my answering machine apologizing over and over very sincerely. It turned out that he was fighting with his wife the whole day before, and the morning that he was supposed to go with me. He explained that he's been having problems getting work and was wife won't get off his back. So I forgave him and we saw each other a few more times. Later that year I donated another 40,000 cards to his friend Bubba The Love Sponge who was doing a charity drive for the poor children of Tampa who went to a particular large church. Bubba seemed really cool, but he was off the wall crazy.
Then my marriage starting going south because my wife wanted a baby ASAP and I just started having severe leg and back pain and didn't want to even think about having a baby while I was dealing with a potentially very serious problem (which it certainly turned out to be). So I took a job as a Senior Manager for Playoff Inc.- a sports card company in TX that was committing all kinds of fraud and I wanted to bust them. My wife & I decided splitting up was best for her, so we got a divorce. I didn't want to ruin her life because I was sick. We were only married less than two years and she was quite a bit younger than I.
She never did give me the $100 I won, but I didn't care: the fringe benefits far outweighed the $100. I did put that card company out of business after a long war and Panini bought it once they went bankrupt. You have to take the good with the bad.
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Don Henley is acutely aware of dealers, paparazzi and collectors. He wil sign an autograph but ALWAYS perosnalizes and NO Eagles items. Forget a photo. I was at Pre R&R HOF party with M Jagger, Springsteen and Henley. Bruce came out posed for a photo and signed. Jagger in a good mood. signed several albums for the people there, and ALMOST posed was joking about it "Should I Nah" . Henlye came out.IMMEDIATELY saw us and u yelLed "No" avoiding AL graphs or cameras. When Mick Jagger is cool enough to sign and HENLEY is NOT. that is how dificult he is. He signed for me years ago but stil refused the photo "You never know where they wind up" (true)
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Permalink Reply by Corey Moylan on
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Here's another tragedy....http://www.ebay.com/itm/PINK-FLOYD-DARK-SIDE-OF-THE-MOON-SIGNED-AUT...
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$720 with 11 bids
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The whole "Balloon " letter Pink FLoyd is fake too...(Nick Mason drawing)? WHo is doing all these elaborate fakes? How can he sell this without a valid COA..I thought ebay policy now requires a COA from PSA/ JSA/ or one other (they now list only 3 or 4 co they will accept a COA from)
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The seller of the Dark Side album w/the Nick Mason drawing told a friend of mine exactly this when she asked exactly who the COA is from (their full name), and from what charity:
"I'm actually in Memphis on Business until next week. The COA is from D & D Music Memorabilia. I fully guarantee the authenticity. I have other items also signed by the band and they match perfectly. I thought the Pink Floyd doodle was very cool. My wife is very involved with Breast Cancer awareness and I purchased this maybe 20 years ago at an auction benefiting the cause. I promised the proceeds from this sale would go straight to that. Thanks for the interest. There are about 30 people "watching" it. I already turned down a $1200 offer. I hope I did the right thing or she may divorce me :) Peace, Greg "
Can this guy lie any more obviously? He didn't answer the SIMPLE questions either, yet goes on rambling about things that have nothing to do with what he was asked. I'll post whatever he tells my friend when he returns from Memphis.
I love how average autograph collectors think they can just look at autographs supposedly signed from the same person/people and say they are authentic based on their novice comparison.
David K: eBay doesn't require anything of anyone UNLESS they are called by an eBay member specifically complaining about rules that another member is breaking (which I do all the time) and almost no one else does. An average complaint takes 30-minutes to complete regardless of the rule that has been broken. First you have to explain the problem to the operator who answers the phones (morons who don't know eBay's rules, yet they'll argue with you anyway). Then if you get VERY lucky they'll transfer you to the right Specialist on the first try. You could take a chance and ask for a Trust and Safety Specialist, yet they are not always the specialists who care about your specific rule complaint.
Then you have to know which eBay Specialist type to ask for depending on the type of rule that is broken or you can easily be transferred around to 4-5 people telling the whole story to each of them only to eventually be told "I have to transfer you to someone else."
Here's an example: I tape recorded a 40-minute complaint I made about a seller I won (4) $1-$4 VERY LIGHT sports cards from with a listed S&H fee of $3.50 (no other fees were mentioned in any of their listings). Then I got an invoice for $14.00 S&H!!! When I told the seller he can't do that due to eBay's Reasonable Shipping free rules, AND eBay's Hidden S&H Fee rules- he sent a second invoice with a $6.00 S&H fee. I told him "I'm NOT bartering here!" I again explained that he is breaking serious eBay rules and I will report him unless he corrects the S&H fee to $3.50 and he may face suspension (which is the truth). Then he cancelled my entire order! It was now time to call eBay.
So I called and got Justin (a woman with an Indian accent & I know they got rid of their foreign call centers) and she made me explain the entire story. Then she said "sellers can charge whatever they decide to charge for shipping & handling fees". I immediately said "You don't know what you are talking about, I want to speak to a Trust and Safety Specialist" because she didn't know eBay's rules at all. She refused to transfer me and kept telling me things like "you won four items, so the seller can charge $3.50 X 4 for shipping" and then said "one item has a S&H fee of $4.11". She actually quoted the COST of the item, not the S&H price??? So I DEMANDED to speak to a Trust and Safety Specialist in a very stern voice after I corrected her idiotic mistake. She then transferred me.
I got a nice guy from Trust and Safety and told him I just wasted 20-minutes explain my problem with a seller to a female who said her name was Justin twice. So I explained again the WHOLE STORY, and he read all our e-mails back & forth. He said 'You did everything the right way and this seller did everything the wrong way." Then the new guy said "Sellers can't charge more than the highest listed S&H price unless they specify otherwise, but they still have to stay within eBay's Reasonable Shipping fee rules."
So I said to myself 'thank goodness, someone who knows the rules as well as I do". He apologized for Justin's stupidity and said he would do an investigation and see if this seller has any other complaints on file for a possible suspension, but as they always say "we cannot tell you what punishment the seller will get if any." He also said "I will e-mail the seller to make certain that he knows he cannot charge the S&H fees the way he thought he could." He said he would explain the S&H rules just as I tried to do with him. He added: "I will make sure he knows the S&H rules or he will be suspended if he ever tries this again and we will be monitoring his invoices to buyers."
Unfortunately I won't get the items I purchased, nor will you ever if you report the seller by phone for Unreasonable S&H fees after trying to work things out with the seller first. eBay should force eBay sellers to charge the correct S&H fee in cases like this one, but I guess that opens up too many possibilities for revenge that sellers may try like sending empty envelopes or purposely badly damaging cards. I ended the conversation telling this eBay guy that unreasonable S&H fees is an epidemic in the Sports Card area on eBay and unless eBay notifies every seller of these S&H rules they will continue to overcharge S&H fees. He said he'll mention this in his next management meeting. I doubt they'll do anything. But at least buyers can know that eBay will back you up if you get crazy sellers who think they can charge you whatever they want for S&H. BUT YOU MUST CALL THEM BY PHONE!
Clicking REPORT ITEM when you see a BAD item on eBay and using that useless automated reporting system is worthless. I have used it dozens of times and then WATCHED the items the seller was selling for a month to see if the illegal items, or autograph forgeries, or police badges, or grab bags they were selling were stopped by eBay at any point and not one ever was. e-mailing them at support@eBay.com is just as worthless.
I hope this info helps some buyers because sellers have been protected by eBay for far too long and it's about time that eBay realized that they had better protect good buyers from BAD sellers in Sports Card AND Autographs or loose most of their bidders for good!
Good luck!
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Unfortunately the SHORT on your reply is TRUE. Ebay has no idea of their own rules when you call. You do get transferred around. I have had the experience. I checked the other items this Seller has for sale. They are all SPORTS autographs such as a signed A ROD baseball for only 49.99 . Other dealers want 250.00 for a real one. His scan is virtually impossible to read the autograph clearly. It states "comes with COA" but NO COA is shown. I bet the COA has NO real address, email, and phone number or signature. People will bid on these forgeries. I am just wondering if MASON signed the LP and someone forged all the other graphs badly ? And YES--EBAY is awful..Buyer beware. Calling them is a horrible experience.
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I was just about to call up eBay last night to report this item, however, reading your replies makes me doubt myself that I will be able to do a difference. I have always loved the concept of eBay, however the site is regularly abused by the same bad apples. It really sickens me that someone will purchase an obvious forgery that is nearing $1,000. We can wait to hear from the PF experts on this forum, but IMO all signatures are forgeries. I haven't seen anything like that particular bubble from Nick before, very bad.
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I hav e two in person Pink FLoyd Bubbles from NICK from 2006 and 2007... I need to compare mine to this.. he is going to sell it for about 1K..when a "real one" is listed for 13,000 by press pass collectibles. (and 2 of th sigs on that one are suspect..but its a better short they are real)
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