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Authenticity is Everything
Arnold Schwarzenegger: Difference between Authentic & Secretarial + Signature Study
For a long time, collectors have been warned about the potential for Arnold Schwarzenegger's TTM signatures being secretarial, especially due to the fact that there seemed to be no short supply of them in the 90s. These signatures are VERY close to the real ones, and they can be tough to spot without regular familiarity with Arnold's signature.
I'd like to create a thread outlining the differences between a secretarial and authentic signature. I will post examples of the secretarial signatures, and examples of signatures that I believe are authentic because they come from "official" sources. I will also outline the key differences between the signatures.
Please feel free to let me know if you agree with my opinions, and if there is any other important information that should be included.
There is also a "riddle of steel" to solve at the bottom, concerning official autograph cards. Please comment and help out!
SECRETARIAL SIGNATURES:
CHARACTERISTICS OF SECRETARIAL SIGNATURES:
OVERALL:
If you were to trace a line under these signatures, you'd end up with a very squiggly line. The letters, especially in the "nol" and "hwarzene" do not touch on the same invisible horizontal line under the signature.
These signatures usually have an upward slant to them, and are usually signed straight across the bottom of something.
The letters in these signatures "stand upright".
"ARN":
These letters tend to be very "loopy", with no definition of different letters. It is more of a continuous squiggly line.
"LD":
The "L" tends to be the same height as the "D".
"CH"
The "C" and the start of the "H" tend to bow away from each other.
"W":
This letter is usually very rounded and small, with the second dip of the w very much like the first dip.
"ZENE":
These letters are usually formed loosely, and they all aren't running in the same angle/direction.
AUTHENTIC SIGNATURES:
To ensure the accuracy of this study, I tried to include only "official" verified hand-signed signatures. The first is from a fine art print signed for Sideshow Collectibles in 2005. The next are various in-person signatures from Arnold's book tour in 2012. The final is from Arnold's exclusive signing with Easton Press for a special edition of his book.
CHARACTERISTICS OF AUTHENTIC SIGNATURES:
OVERALL:
If you were to trace a line under these signatures, you'd end up with a relatively straight line. In most instances, each letter touches down on the same invisible horizontal line below the signature. In some cases, his first name and last name don't follow that same line, but each word in his name name still can have a relatively straight line traced under it.
These signatures usually have a rightward slant to them, with about a 15 degree pitch to the signature, in comparison to the upright letters found in the secretarial signatures. Arnold tends to have an overall upward slant to his signatures. Unless he has to sign on a straight line (such as the lines provided on the official signed books), his signature tends to have an overall upwards drift. This can even be seen on the line provided on the Easton Press COA. His signed books without a signature line tend to have an upward drift to them as well.
"ARN":
While some of these letters can occasionally have a loopy characteristic to them, the letters are more defined as three individual letters.
"LD":
The "L" tends to range from being slightly shorter than the "D", to being much shorter than the "D".
"CH":
The "C" and the start of the "H" may slightly bow from each other, but not as dramatically as found in the secretarial signatures. On many occasions, the "C" and the start of the "H" are almost parallel to each other.
"W":
The "W" tends to be larger and more defined on an authentic signature. It is not as rounded, and oftentimes the first dip in the "W" is larger than the second dip.
"ZENE":
These letters are usually tightly defined, and they are usually running in very similar angle/direction.
Tags: Arnold, Authentic, Autograph, Differences, Schwarzenegger, Secretarial, Signature
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan Tam on
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The Freeze one has zero doubt being done by secretary. It’s so identical to the other examples that it might as well have been done by an auto pen machine.
I mean the T1 signed photo in question which someone claims they saw the seller claiming is from Alamo City. It is genuine. Also, the organizer suddenly decided to throw in an extra auto for every VIP package so you should expect to see more of these items popping up from people trying to recoup some of the high VIP costs
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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Thank you very much for your feedback. It’s great to know it’s genuine and they are asking an amazing generous price bc I thought my only hope was dropping a grand with celebrity authentics. The only thing that might put me off about it is it almost seems like he didn’t have enough room on the right side to finish the signature and the “r” may have never made it onto the photo. Seems like the line goes right to the end off the photo
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Somehow I cannot reply to Michael’s comment. Anyway what price is the seller asking for? If he’s asking below $100 there is a higher risk of it being fake though.
Arnie has taken the effort of finishing off his full last name - at many times at a quick run in on the street he doesn’t bother doing it. It is evident on many of the autos being sold on eBay (the real ones anyway). You can clearly tell
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They are asking a buy it now price of $250. It’s just shocking to me they are even asking for that low bc he charged $1250 at the con for VIP passes only. The seller claims they got 2 autos and are keeping their blue ray insert they got signed yet selling this one. It includes 2 photos of him at the con: one of the banner above where he sat and one of him before sitting down taken by them in line. I’m just really surprised they are willing to accept only $250 when the ticket to meet him cost them over a thousand. I would have expected them to sell it for at least $400 or $450.
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Well considering the other auto was essentially free to the seller, I guess he only wanted one photo op and one auto so he’s selling the other one? The information he provided is consistent with fact
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Jonathan what do you think of this one? It’s also authenticated by Beckett.
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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Secretarial
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I really am surprised that Steve Grad is authenticating these secretarials. I’m surprised he doesn’t know about this. That can’t be good for his credibility.
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JXE and I are better judges. They reference stock photo which they previously deemed authentic. You can see where the system falls apart.
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This now has me concerned about my Harrison Ford and Anthony Hopkins autos which I spent good money on. They were authenticated by Beckett. When I first started everyone told me go by Beckett bc they are the best, and now I’m seeing this which leads me to think otherwise. I’m starting to think their authentication means nothing and wonder if Steve truly even looks at them at all or just signs off.
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They are still better than JSA. Beckett is expert on Star Wars stuff so the Harrison Ford I'd trust.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on
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Trustworthy really depend on the submitter more than the authenticator. He is signing off on a lot of trash these days. If he doesn’t his high volume dealers will go elsewhere.
Beckett no different then the others. It’s all about volume and money. The autographs they sticker and the collector are just collateral damage to their greed.
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