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autograph inconsistencies

ok... so while obtaining autographs at this weekend's Memorial tournament in Columbus, Oh... i noticed something. it's actually something quite common in today's autograph market.

inconsistencies of a celebrity's autograph. many actors/actresses/rock stars/ athletes etc. have a different autograph when it comes to crowds then when it comes to a one on one situation or even to a sit down signing situation. and some celebs (especially sports athletes who get paid for their signing services) change their autograph entirely for different times in either their career or whether they are being paid for their signature. I've personally seen it all and shown some examples across this forum. I've even shared the story of Chad Henne who actually said to a friend of mine who was doing a private signing where he purposely has a different autograph for free than he does for pay. I can show you where Eddie Vedder has changed his signature wildly 4 times during his career.

some stars autographs just have slight differences just because they have signed so much over the years that it usually just becomes a quicker version of their old signature. but what happens when a celeb is basically changing his autograph minute by minute. not necessarily a wholesale change, just subtle differences.

my case here... Rory Mcilroy. 2011 U.S. Open winner. i had heard that he signs pin flags horribly. so i purposely bought a Memorial Tournament flag to see this myself. And he did just that. I followed Rory for 3 holes (until i was completely out of items for him to sign.) and i watched him sign just about anything. photos, golf balls, pin flags, index cards, magazines, programs, scorecards, hats etc. and he did. if you were a little kid, you got the best autograph from him (i had no little kids and am not one either, so i didn't get the best possible autograph). but i did see him take a little bit more time on everything else and on pin flags, his autograph looks purposely atrocious.

the three i'm going to show you are 2 photos and a close up of the pin flag signature as well. i got all three of them within a half an hour. the crowd was about the same with all of them.

so now, you tell me... if i send in all 3 to PSA DNA...do they pass the 2 photos AND the pin flag? and look, they all have slight differences to a very wild difference in the flag (where it barely looks anywhere near the same.)

do you have any instances to share where the autograph has changed either purposely, or just in general... i'm hoping to show how and when and why celebs change their signatures... is it just circumstance?

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Permalink Reply by Rich on June 18, 2012 at 7:53am

I'm in full agreement that something doesn't seem quite right here, but just to throw this thought out there -- my initial instinct was that the collector may have got these from the Adams after the show. After last year's Wizard World Chicago show, I saw some ebayers selling autographs obtained by celebrities attending the show. However, instead of going inside the convention and paying for the autographs, they intercepted them outside the building (mostly in the parking ramp I think, based on the "proof" photos taken). The autographs looked authentic from what I saw, though perhaps a bit sloppier than what you would have gotten inside the show.

But, in this case, I don't know that this is what happened here. None of AW's inventory lines up favorably with the examples from the show or other known in person autos from her.

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Permalink Reply by JXE on June 18, 2012 at 8:09am

Great examples!

AW agrees with me that they look different from the other signatures at the event. They weren't there and they got them through the agent at the show. They're checking with the agent now and pointing out the inconsistencies. I trust in them 100% that they'll take care of it if there's funny business afloat.

Permalink Reply by JXE on June 18, 2012 at 10:55am

So, AW seemed to really investigate this. They got back to me and said her agent said she signed their batch in the car on the way to the airport. They agreed that they looked sloppier and different from what she sat down and signed at the con, so she offered to resign a batch for AW. AW is going to send me one from that batch.

So take that in what sense you may. I believe AW is being 100% honest. Is her agent? Is it possible she was in the car and was just very sloppy/inconsistent?

Permalink Reply by Peter C. on June 17, 2012 at 2:29am

I have to say that I was suprised by inconsistency of Roger Waters signings.... Some of my friends were on airport when he arrived to Prague and their signs looks really very differently to each other - and my in person signature I got two days later (I have to admit that mine is one of "awful" ones I have seen) looks very different to all of them. I realized, that during current The Wall Tour, he is signing for really a LOT of fans (I heard that in Argentina he signed all 9 days and for 30 - 40 mins each day) and thats maybe the reason why these signatures looks very different too, because the focus to make the sign "nice" is gone :) I have to say that only "W" letter looks pretty similar to each other.... :)

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Permalink Reply by Peter C. on June 17, 2012 at 8:09am

You can compare my autograph with Stephen´s signatures.... Im going to ask my friends about using their photographs here.

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Permalink Reply by Peter C. on June 17, 2012 at 12:37pm

So I got the agreement:

My personally obtained RW signature (16th April 2011):

One of my friends got the signature two days before (14th April shortly after midnight) at the airport:

And my another friend who was with me at the hotel got this:

Time difference? Two days.... I think that they are very different to each other! :)

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Permalink Reply by Barry S on June 18, 2012 at 8:19am

Nice article Mike! I was just thinking this the other day. We went to "Panthers First Look" Thursday, my 5 year old girl, 8 year old boy and I. We got most everyone. Steve Smith came right to my girl, signed a beautiful sig on her ball, signed beautifully on my boys helmet, since he didn't look to be in a rush I pulled out my VIP card thing around my neck and asked if he would sign it. It looks nothing like my kid's sigs.

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Permalink Reply by JXE on June 18, 2012 at 11:19am

I'm not sure I was being clear. Not their agent, her agent. AW told me that they worked out a deal with her agent where they supplied the photos she would sign for the show and the end result was they would get a stack of autographs. When I brought up the issue, they agreed with me that they looked different from what she signed and they inquired about it with her agent. He claimed they looked unusual because she signed them in the car and he is going to have her do another batch to replace AWs current stock. Based on their eagerness to get to the bottom of it and the chain of events in my emails, it looks like if these are indeed fake, the only way this could have gone sour would have been that her agent signed the photos and sent them off to AW, skrewing them over in the deal they had. I'm guessing the agent was so quick to offer them a new batch because they supplied the photos for the show.

I will keep you posted on if/when I receive the replacement and what it looks like.

With that said, can you please point me in the right direction for the music issues you were talking about?

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Permalink Reply by James Lafaman on June 18, 2012 at 12:57pm

Here is a 2012 Roger Waters obtained IP when he made an appearance at the Sirius building. Sorry for the scan but it is in a frame already. I had remarked awhile ago in another thread about the inconsistencies. Very difficult today to determine if anything is good unless you get it yourself. As stated earlier, it makes a big difference where you get the IP's. I had access inside the building and virtually everyone else was outside. I was in a suit and worked in the building, so people were always nicer to me for no other reason then they thought I was either security because I was right at the check in desk or standing with the guards and wearing a suit. Anyway, coming in or going out, good interview, bad interview, inside the lobby or outside on the street, standing, sitting, walking, crowd or no crowd, etc.. all had an effect on the signature. Some very consistent, some very inconsistent. I used a Traci Lords example in the other thread. Both IP's, both different. Someone added Ann Hathaway who was also very different. I do not have JL Adams. That said, I have been to so many shows where I can see someone being inconsistent after signing 100's or 1000's of autographs over a few days at a convention. I personally would be more concerned if a seller had many items and everyone looked exactly the same.

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Permalink Reply by Marc Ross on June 18, 2012 at 8:24pm

Here are 2 I got IP from Megan Fox from the same premiere about 10 minutes apart. When she first started signing they were the nicer ones then as it got more hectic she was just basically scribbling. If I wanted to get an authentic one from a website and was told these were both from the same person I wouldnt know what to believe