Hello, fellow collectors!
I hope 2026 has been kind to you all so far. So look, being experienced collectors, I think most of us are very aware that even the most highly-regarded 3rd Party Authenticators like Beckett (BAS), PSA/DNA, and JSA don’t get things right all the time. Many of us have had head-scratching and sometimes costly experiences in this regard. Well, I recently had one of them. And it cost me a few thousand dollars on eBay.
I sold an Upper Deck Authenticated (UDA) Michael Jordan signed basketball. The ball had the original, authentic UDA hologram from the 2012 signing event at the MJ Flight School Camp in Santa Barbara, California. The hologram is clearly authentic and still in pristine, untampered-with condition. The ball was signed on July 31, 2012. Unfortunately, the original UDA matching hologram COA was lost. HOWEVER, I also have a copy of the email verification that I received from Upper Deck in 2019 on Upper Deck Letterhead.
I know the ball is real because I obtained it from one of my best friends who I’ve been friends with literally since birth. He and his son attended the camp and witnessed the signing along with Upper Deck. So the possibility of it being inauthentic is zero. Not only that, but it looks authentic. I don’t know if I’d say it’s a “classic” Michael Jordan autograph, but I’m not even sure there is a “classic” example. Jordan’s autograph has clearly evolved over the years from his playing days at UNC to his early years with the Bulls to his later career and retirement years. Even since his autograph settled down, his signature can vary actually quite a bit from signing to signing, even from autograph events just a few months apart. And yet there’s still some significant similarities that one sometimes sees. But sometimes he might use a much bigger loop while making the letter “M”. Other times it’s a much smaller loop. Occasionally, there’s a small loop in the middle of the M. Usually there’s not….but sometimes there is. Often MJ has a tiny loop in the “l” at the end of “Michael”. Sometimes though there is not a tiny loop at all in l”. As for the “Jordan” part, there is a LOT of variation, BUT there are some consistencies too, in particular with the slope of the “J” and the slant of the “o” and MJ doesn’t usually close the “o” completely. ALSO, Jordan usually makes a loop on the outside at the bottom of the “M” and crosses over to the inside of the “M” and then slants upward and into the formation of the “ichael”. HOWEVER, sometimes he does NOT make a loop on the outside at the bottom of the “M” and only loops on the inside of the “M” which is the case in my Jordan ball. (EXCITING READING, I KNOW!)
SO ANYWAY, I listed and sold my authentic UDA ball on eBay. In the listing’s description, I noted that if a buyer wanted, for peace of mind, to send the ball to either PSA/DNA or JSA, I gave a money back guarantee it would pass authentication. I had no worries that it would pass because I knew FOR A FACT it was signed by Michael Jordan and WITNESSED by Upper Deck and by my best friend and his son. FURTHERMORE, I also have the Verification Email I received from Upper Deck in 2019 stating, “We can verify that U______5 is an authentic Michael Jordan signed basketball. The ball was signed on July 31, 2012 at Jordan’s Flight School Camp in Santa Barbara, California. The signing was witnessed by an Upper Deck Representative. The item was provided by the camp attendee.”
So the buyer sent it to Beckett (BAS), and Beckett quite erroneously failed it. Now, I must note that Upper Deck has changed their policies since 2019. To begin with, Flight Camp holograms were rarely if ever uploaded to Upper Deck’s main public database. In 2019, I had to email them with the hologram number and wait for a response since it had to be specially looked up in UDA’s private database.
BUT NOW, Upper Deck will only verify UDA items if you have both holograms. Therefore, even BAS could not get it verified with UDA. So one of their authenticators reviewed it. This is what Beckett concluded.
* “The signature has an atypical letter slant, angle, and pitch
• There are baseline issues, including misalignment and undulation
• The signature has been drawn slowly
• The formation of the letters and overlapping of strokes is irregular or unusual
• The signature lacks flow, rhythm, conviction, and spontaneity”
This is COMPLETE jive takin’ as The Bee Gees might say. Blah, blah, blah. This is made up mumbo jumbo nonsense. I’m quite sure BAS has a pre-formulated template to state this stuff. They receive hundreds of submissions daily and likely spend a couple of minutes glancing at your item. The buyer also paid for express service to get it completed within 10 business days which ended up being more like 25 business days.
I know Beckett is WAY backlogged. And I’m pretty sure they spend just minutes on your $3k to $5k basketball. So I highly doubt they look at as many Jordan examples as I do. Authentic Jordan autographs vary a lot. You can see this by exclusively looking at authentic UDA examples. But I doubt the Beckett employee poured over numerous exemplars. They have to keep the line moving. Furthermore, HONESTLY WHAT IS the experience level of the employee who reviewed my authentic example? Did not being able to verify it through Upper Deck bother him? He could clearly see that my UDA hologram was clearly authentic and untampered with. The hologram is PRISTINE.
This should have been a quick and EASY authentication.
And did you hear? BECKETT authenticated over 1,100 FAKE JASON KELSEY signed items including lots of jerseys. The scammer made over $200,000 on these fake Kelsey autographs that Beckett said were all authentic.
So the guy who bought my Jordan ball immediately started calling me a thief and a criminal and was going to file criminal charges against me if I didn’t refund him, all because probably some college intern at Beckett decided to decline my authentic Upper Deck-witnessed Michael Jordan signed item. I kid you not. I could tell my buyer was not an avid autograph collector, but probably had thought of getting an MJ basketball for years and finally decided to buy one. I told him that it was already witnessed by Upper Deck, and Beckett is just an OPINION. He’s the worst buyer I’ve ever dealt with, not that I sell a lot. I mainly just collect.
So ANY THOUGHTS on all this? Has anyone else had an experience like this? I knew a woman who once had Mickey Mantle in her store in KC to sign autographs. I was there. Years later, she still had about 100 Mickey Mantle signed baseballs that were signed by The Mick right in her store. Years ago, she decided to send them to PSA/DNA, and PSA rejected them all!! She witnessed the signing. RIDICULOUS. She was so mad because that cost her A LOT of money.
For whatever reason, AI suggested that I send the ball to JSA….that they might be better at MJ authentication. AI also stated that although authentic UDA holograms have been removed from legit balls and transferred to fake ones, it’s not easily done and usually the holograms will show signs of tampering or will sometimes be destroyed in the process. AI said it’s more often the case where the holograms themselves will be fake and have a dead look to them. AI said my pristine, REAL UDA hologram along with the 2019 verification from Upper Deck is pretty good evidence the ball is authentic. But of course I know it FOR CERTAIN is authentic because I know who got it. And I know they were at the event.
- Signed, very frustrated James
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Uh, that was a really, really long read. But an interesting story (and I like that you made fun of it being so long). It's hard for me to have so much sympathy, because people buying/selling autographs, are what made forgeries become so common in this field. People should get autographs for themselves, and then you don't have to worry about it passing with PSA or Beckett or anyone else, because you know it's real. You got it.
That all being said -- why is this buyer so bad? It didn't pass. He wants his money back. The deal you made was you'd give it back. You should also have to refund his postage.
And why in the hell did you lose the other hologram or whatever it was. That's kind of foolish.
Lastly, if you want to sell it, send it to another place for authentication.
But all that being said, yes, I do feel bad you're in this situation. It does suck if you know something is real and this happens (although technically....you don't know it was real just because your best friend yadda yadda yadda....if we all had a nickle for every time somebody selling an autograph said something like "I know it's real because my uncle got it" or whatever other BS story they have; not saying your story is BS but...your story proves absolutely nothing in regards to an autograph being authentic.
Thanks for your reply. Here’s another long one from me. The buyer was “so bad” because rather than just saying…..unfortunately, the ball didn’t pass BAS, he IMMEDIATELY started saying I committed fraud, and that I was a criminal all because an unknown employee at BAS gave an opinion that was wrong. I don’t know how long you’ve been a member of Autograph Live, but there’s a tremendous number of threads where we’ve discussed HOW MANY TIMES TPAs get it WRONG. They MESS UP A LOT. I’ve been collecting autographs for over 30 years. I’m not a novice. I remember when my best friend of SIXTY years took to his son to the Jordan camp. I actually met them almost immediately after the camp was over. I saw the ball within a few hours after it was signed. YES, I KNOW WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY it was signed by Jordan and witnessed by Upper Deck.
As for the buyer, you don’t start immediately calling someone a criminal because a TPA rendered an incorrect opinion. He even threatened to file “criminal charges” against me. Good luck with that going anywhere. Just ask for a refund and be done with it. He acted like I was running a criminal enterprise. An experienced collector knows this crap happens all the time (talking about the buyer, not you).
Did you catch the part about how Beckett AUTHENTICATED over 1,100 FAKE JASON KELSEY AUTOGRAPHS?? This is who we put our trust and money in?
I became friends with a woman in KC who owned a sports memorabilia store, and in the early 90s she had Mickey Mantle in her store to sign autographs for her customers. Years later she sent in about 100 Mantle signed baseballs to PSA/DNA for authentication. The balls were signed by Mickey Mantle right in her store. Well, PSA/DNA rejected them all!! I was at that signing. I met Mantle in her store. So these TPAs screw up a lot, and we all know this.
I encourage you to look up “Hauls of Shame”. It details all the Babe Ruth signed baseballs that were FAKE that got authenticated as real by PSA/DNA and others. What is their accuracy rate? Personally I think they probably are right maybe 65% of the time. That’s just my guess. But even if they only mess up 10% of the time, that’s still a lot of autographs that are incorrectly labeled as either real or fake.
There are NUMEROUS members here that have better expertise than many of the TPAs. We have a member here who might just be the BEST, most knowledgeable person in the world regarding MADONNA autographs. He’s pointed out many Madonna autographs that were authenticated by Beckett and others that were actually fake. Unfortunately it’s very frustrating that we are sort of held hostage by these outfits. Many novice or inexperienced collectors just look at the sticker and assume the autograph must be real when it very well might not be.
Yes, you did mention the Mickey Mantle originally, and I caught the Kelce part too.
Yes, you're right. That guy was a dope. He should've just asked for him money back and been done with it.
I was afraid I had already mentioned the Mickey Mantle incidence. I should have reread my post, but it’s too dang long! Lol. Yes, the buyer had a clear right to ask for a return as I promised. I just wish he had handled it a little more politely. I appreciate your reply, and for reading through my novel. Lol.
How much did your friend sell you the signed ball for? Can we see a photo of the ball?
Selling autographs, is one of many reasons stars don't like to sign any more. And it ruins it for the rest of us.
For example, Eric Clapton once signed guitars for a charity. He tried to make his signature look a little nicer than usual, as it was charity. So guess what? The guitars sell for 10K each, or whatever it was. One guy goes to get the cert from a company and it doesn't pass, because it doesn't look like Clapton's "normal" signature. They sue Clapton's charity. At that point, he said -- I will never sign another autograph.
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