Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Helen on January 7, 2013 at 9:03am

It's so AGGRAVATING that he can stand there and grin and spin his version of the story without being challenged. And the mugs walk away and think he's answered everything. Grrrrrrrrrrr where's the police???

His spin on the standee is especially blatant.

"Darren Julien: (...)

Looking at the standee sold in the auction and the “official” standee sold by Bravado, there are clear and distinct deviations. Among other things, Michael Jackson’s face measurements between the two versions are noticeably different; the license plates behind Michael Jackson in the two versions are wholly different; and the shoes worn by Michael Jackson in the two standees appear to be different. Based on these comparisons, it would appear to us that the standee sold in the auction was, in fact, a counterfeit or bootleg that came out before the official version. So, what Mr. Sebacious said (whether accurately stated or misstated by various bloggers and fans) has no bearing on the issue. We do not appear to be dealing with the official Bravado merchandise.

Nonetheless, because the standee appears to be a bootleg, it is not possible to determine with absolute certainty when it was released. At the end of the day, the most important thing to us is our reputation, goodwill, and name, and upholding the trust and faith that our clients have in us. Accordingly, in order to eliminate any concern whatsoever, we have canceled the sale. "

Is he mad?!?! "The licence plates are wholly different"? "Michael is wearing different shoes"??? IS HE BLIND??? DOES HE THINK WE'RE STUPID??? IT'S THE SAME PHOTO!!

However, I compared the standee pictures in the catalogue and the one Michelle posted below: http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-sign...

There actually is one difference: The blurb saying "lifesize standup" in the top right corner is oval on the Juliens item and rectangular on Michelle's. That could be a loophole.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 7, 2013 at 10:37am

Nope, Felix was given both pics and stated they were his standee made after MJ died.

I should also let you guys know, I emailed Felix and sent him the interviews, as I'm sure he'll find them enlightening

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Permalink Reply by Helen on January 7, 2013 at 11:00am

Thank you!!

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Permalink Reply by Helen on January 7, 2013 at 9:22am

Oh, and he's doing exactly what I predicted: he points to the earlier, unchallenged auctions where they managed to sell bucketloads of fake MJ autographs.

"MJJC: You have recently stated that there are “exact samples” of these types/styles of Jackson autographs that you and others have sold in the past few years.  Can you provide specific examples (with pictures or links) to autographed items similar to the ones sold in this auction other than anything coming from Michael Bush’s collection? Specifically, can you show similar Michael Jackson autographs as sold previously in your own auction listings?

DJ: Yes please see below links:

Legends, October 9th, 2010
-Lot 332, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1726/
-Lot 338, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1726/
-Lot 350, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1742/
-Lot 367, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1737/
-Lot 370, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1736/
-Lot 371, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1748/
-Lot 385, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1738/
-lot 388, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1727/
-lot 389, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1746/
-lot 392, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1746/
-lot 397, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1740/
-lot 409, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1735/
-lot 407, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1743/
-lot 413, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1739/
-lot 416, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1877/
-lot 425, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1745/
-lot 423, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1759/

Icons & Idols, December 4th, 2010
-Lot 532, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2389/
-Lot 548, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2368/
-Lot 551, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2388/
-Lot 569, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2370/
-Lot 578, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1734/
-Lot 587, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2374/
-Lot 589, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1732/
-Lot 595, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2367/
-Lot 597, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2675/
-Lot 600, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1730/
-Lot 602, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2395/
-Lot 605, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1729/
-Lot 608, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1728/
-Lot 610, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2394/
-Lot 611, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2396/
-Lot 614, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2386/
-Lot 615, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2376/
-Lot 616, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1733/
-Lot 631, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2387/
-Lot 634, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2384/
-Lot 635, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/1731/
-Lot 635a, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/3257/
-Lot 635b, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/3263/
-Lot 635c, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/3258/
-Lot 638, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2390/
-Lot 642, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2385/
-Lot 650b, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/3261/
-Lot 635a, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/3260/
-Lot 658a, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/3259/

Music Icons, June 25th, 2011
Lot 514, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7496/
Lot 526, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7508/
Lot 532, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7514/
Lot 552, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7534/
Lot 555, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7537/
Lot 566, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7548/
Lot 574, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7556/
Lot 575, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7557/
Lot 581, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7563/

Legends, October 21st, 2011
-Lot 426, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9531/
-Lot 427, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9532/
-Lot 440, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9535/
-Lot 449, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9554/
-Lot 451, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9556/
-Lot 477, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9582/
-Lot 494, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/30/lot/9599/

Icons & Idols Rock N Roll 2011:
Lot 1519, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12438/
Lot 1439, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12358/
Lot 1450, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12369/
Lot 1528, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12447/
Lot 1540, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12459/
Lot 1574, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12493/
Lot 1610, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12528/
Lot 1699, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/37/lot/12617/

Music Icons, June 23, 2012
Lot 841, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28789/
Lot 862, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28811/
Lot 867, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28815/
Lot 879, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28827/
Lot 894, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28842/
Lot 898, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28846/
Lot 903, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28851/
Lot 915, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28863/
Lot 921, http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28869/

So Julien's statement is that none of these were part of the Bush/Tompkins Collection. Not quite the same as saying they weren't consigned by them, but still it's a problem.

Unless the police really take this seriously and do some proper digging I repeat, I'm starting to fear they will get away with this :(.

I HATE the deferential tone in the questions of the second interview. MUGS!!! Arrrghghghg. Sorry.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 7, 2013 at 9:55am

I have to laugh tho Helen, as I've been doing a study going from MJ's death forward noting where exactly the first dbl L shows up, and then when the Bush type sig makes an appearance or morphs, which ever happens as I'm not quite done, but I sent a partial list already to Steve.  My first item begins with Lot 332 (same as theirs).... and almost reads pretty similar.  He does leave out the Thriller coat of course (since its a big ticket item), which is Lot 493 on 6/25/2011.  514 is next after that on that particular date on my list. 

My study is to analyze not only the auctions and styles but to note Tompkins death within the auctions and the styles.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 7, 2013 at 10:15am

I should note not everything on my list is exactly as theirs.  There are items I could not clearly see the autograph in order to see if it was legit (and they added it to their list)  There is also an item on their list which I think is authentic that I did not list, will bring that to steve later.  They might be trying to mix in a few good ones just to throw off the lists.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 7, 2013 at 12:02pm

Ok I went thru my lists.. I only have up to 10/21/11 (didn't get any further, as its a lot of stuff to meticulously go thru).   I'll do them one at a time.

Oct 8 2010 auction

I have basically all the same lots plus or minus the following:

Lot 371 (a belt) I missed it as it wasn't the belt that was autographed but a pic (so score one for telling on yourself Darren--your right its a bad sig).

They List Lot 392 (and it opens to Lot 389 which was also listed above it) the signed basketball, which is a double L.  Lot 392 is a map.  I didn't pick on the map myself because I wasn't positive. 

They List Lot 409.  I also didn't pick on this one.  It's cookies in cellophane which I could not clearly see the autograph.  I still don't want to pick on this one because it could be a trap lol.

At the end of this set is Lot 423-I believe this to be a good sig of MJ's.  Thus I believe they are mixing in good with bad. 

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 7, 2013 at 12:23pm

Dec 3rd 2010 (Dec 4th) Icons and Idols

They are missing Lot 594  Signed shoes (Dbl L)  http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2378/?ur...

They list Lot 597 I believe this one is ok

They have lot 642 listed, which opens to Lot 641, and that is correct as a bad signature (dbl L)

They have 635A listed twice on their list - the one 2nd from the bottom opens to 650A which is correct and is a bad sig (dbl L)

Otherwise my list matches with theirs outside of those things (and a few odd sigs like autopens and junk)

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 8, 2013 at 6:31am

Good job, MJ fan. Lot 532 isn't authentic in my opinion, tho.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 8, 2013 at 6:35am

I don't know if the two calendar pages (580, 581) are good or not. They have genuine characteristics but I don't recall seeing that style before. They're definitely not examples of the two Tompkins & Bush styles.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 8, 2013 at 7:39am

You probably didn't misunderstand me. It's more likely I screwed up yesterday. I've gone back and forth on those calendar pages, because they look much like his writing but I haven't seem anything like them before. They could be good, but I wouldn't buy or sell them.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 8, 2013 at 8:44am

OK, MJ Fan:

• This lot 532 is real: http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/7514/
• This lot 532 is not: http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/11/lot/2389/

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